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Old Today, 11:26 (Ref:4233135)   #501
v8supes
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Lets hope so, we need more cars and lower costs not one manufacturer team against well funded privateers.
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Old Today, 11:28 (Ref:4233137)   #502
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I think the only thing currently that might tempt a genuine manufacturer contribution would be racing full EV. Showcasing a technology that many are still sceptical about could be very beneficial. Of course, the Swedish experience should be used as a manual of how not to do it.
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Old Today, 11:31 (Ref:4233138)   #503
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The hybrid going won't bring back anyone already gone. It might save a few who were in doubt over the winter for 2025.
I know. I was talking about social media commenters who think the hybrid was the sole reason for the increase in budgets over the last few years rather than there being a global rise in prices in general.
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Old Today, 11:33 (Ref:4233139)   #504
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Originally Posted by Robin Marriott View Post
Feels like a backwards step to me to be honest.

Why? This is the direction that BTCC was going to go for with a push to pass button when turbo's were introduced. They tried Hybrid system but it's too expensive for what it offers and has caused many dropped race positions when it has failed.

If the Fuel is 100% sustainable why not go with it. This isn't a championship with lots of manufacturer backing anymore, Most of what you see is or has been just the UK marketing arm putting a little money in with other sponsors stumping up the lions share to be part of of a BMW/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota sponsored team. sSo if teams can save 30k a season it will only help with entries in 2025.
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Old Today, 11:37 (Ref:4233141)   #505
Matt K
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The decision to drop hybrid seems strange and backward-looking. I know there's no real manufacturer involvement and I know they can still talk about sustainability because of the fuel but from the marketing perspective this doesn't seem understandable and wise.
Thank God they're not returning to performance weights/success ballast.
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Old Today, 11:38 (Ref:4233142)   #506
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Originally Posted by thetool View Post
The switch will be painful for most series so it's hardly surprising to see efforts to cling on to what they are using currently.

No-one has a crystal ball of course, but with the ban on conventionally fuelled road cars back to 2030 (of course this can, and probably will change) it sees pretty clear the direction of travel.

I imagine unless you're living in a rural area that if you look up and down your street the number of houses with EV charging points outside will have rapidly increased over the last few years, and I'm not in a posh suburb somewhere.
I don't disagree fully, and don't want to come across as obtuse at all, but that date has been pushed back and manufacturers are starting to push back slightly on government dictats. Ultimately if it going to massively impact industry and economy I can see targets being adapted for better or worse.

I do agree regarding EV charging ports, I am not in rural area but also not a big city and you can see the increase in domestic and commercial charging ports.

It is a nuanced issue, I think at the moment this is the right step for the series but we shall see.

The other thing to consider is we know NAPA is likely bringing in a new manufacturer for 2026, if all teams did back this move then it indicates whichever manufacturer that is wasn't overtly concerned about hybrid not being an asset they could use for marketing.
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Old Today, 11:42 (Ref:4233143)   #507
VXDave
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For my two penneth...

I found the hybrid allocations and usage bafflingly complex. Would've been so much simpler to have it as a KERS style assistance with the same amount for everyone, but use success ballast still. Not bothered in one sense that it's now gone, but it's a dangerous line to walk given that most manufacturers are moving away from combustion engines. I don't want to see an electric-only BTCC, but how do you get manufacturers to maintain interest in BTCC when they're moving away from combustion engines? What's the incentive to showcase their cars in the sport?

Obviously it's good that the cars will be lighter, but I'm not sure that removing an element that keeps BTCC relevant to cars you can actually buy is a good move.

What would be lovely is if in the "real world", combustion cars got a new lease of life with sustainable fuels provided at fuel pumps. That way, this move by BTCC would be on-trend and may entice manufacturers.
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Old Today, 11:48 (Ref:4233144)   #508
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Originally Posted by Spanner monkey View Post
Why? This is the direction that BTCC was going to go for with a push to pass button when turbo's were introduced. They tried Hybrid system but it's too expensive for what it offers and has caused many dropped race positions when it has failed.

If the Fuel is 100% sustainable why not go with it. This isn't a championship with lots of manufacturer backing anymore, Most of what you see is or has been just the UK marketing arm putting a little money in with other sponsors stumping up the lions share to be part of of a BMW/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota sponsored team. sSo if teams can save 30k a season it will only help with entries in 2025.
Not knocking the choice of sustainability, that’s a definite step forward and I can’t argue with the money side either.

My gripe is that I think the hybrid system was interesting. Modern tech in a pretty old fashioned series meant something more to keep track of during a race, which I enjoyed.
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Old Today, 11:57 (Ref:4233145)   #509
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
One interesting note I see is that the additional power is now coming from boost pressure. This is fine, but I wonder if any of the engine tuners of the non-TOCA units have any concerns about running higher boost than they have designed for so far in their work?
Not really, every engine is nowhere near its limits when running, TOCA's baseline is around 350-380bhp whereas without restrictors in private hands the old Swindon lumps have comfortably made 480-500 bhp.
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Old Today, 12:13 (Ref:4233146)   #510
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Originally Posted by tocatrucky View Post
Not really, every engine is nowhere near its limits when running, TOCA's baseline is around 350-380bhp whereas without restrictors in private hands the old Swindon lumps have comfortably made 480-500 bhp.
My thought is based on comments from Christian Dick in 2023 when they moved to their own power unit:
“It’s little bits of detail. If we want to take a risk in terms of how close we run to the actual boost limit or temperatures and suchlike, that’s up to us"
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Old Today, 12:23 (Ref:4233147)   #511
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
My thought is based on comments from Christian Dick in 2023 when they moved to their own power unit:
“It’s little bits of detail. If we want to take a risk in terms of how close we run to the actual boost limit or temperatures and suchlike, that’s up to us"
the risk refers to how close they run to the boost limit without sometimes over boosting and getting a penalty or how much they want to blank off the radiators without overcooking the temps
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Old Today, 12:27 (Ref:4233149)   #512
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Originally Posted by BtccLee View Post
Hybrid out, 100% sustainable fuel in for 2025 with boost coming purely from turbo power: https://btcc.net/btcc-introduces-100...ybrid-departs/

Wow.
Are we creeping towards "super" touring again. I, for one, would welcome the crazy days again.
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Old Today, 13:28 (Ref:4233155)   #513
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Do we know for sure it was Watson behind the wheel of the Speedworks Toyota out testing recently, as while it ran no.11, Watson posted a picture from abroad the same day & I’m not sure it’s his crash helmet either, but picture isn’t that clear.
I hadn't there were 2 Toyotas at that test. Some pictures posted on FB earlier today in one of the fan groups. As well as the plain grey #11, the other was still in Wartson's 2024 livery marked although marked as #12. I'm not familiar enough with helmet designs to recognise the drivers.
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Old Today, 13:35 (Ref:4233158)   #514
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Originally Posted by Matt K View Post
The decision to drop hybrid seems strange and backward-looking. I know there's no real manufacturer involvement and I know they can still talk about sustainability because of the fuel but from the marketing perspective this doesn't seem understandable and wise.
Thank God they're not returning to performance weights/success ballast.
Yes, that's one thing we can be thankful for. Success Ballast had it's day and no need to bring it back. As for the dropping of hybrid and bringing in sustainable fuel, I'll reserve judgement on
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Old Today, 14:16 (Ref:4233162)   #515
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Originally Posted by VXDave View Post
For my two penneth...

I found the hybrid allocations and usage bafflingly complex. Would've been so much simpler to have it as a KERS style assistance with the same amount for everyone, but use success ballast still
The cars are already very heavy for what they are. Running ballast on top of the hybrid would have just made that worse.

Nice side effect of the new regs is that the cars are going to be a lot lighter so should perform better. Probably going to be a lot of records tumbling.
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Old Today, 15:13 (Ref:4233167)   #516
coffinpilot
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More rule changes to come soon they say. Hopefully ditching running three tyre compounds in one day will go.
I accept, and enjoy the fiddling around to make the championship entertainment first, but that has been a bit silly in my eyes.
As for the hybrid, I thought they had it nailed last year, in entertainment value. I only hope this doesn't take us back to 2022 if there is less power to be deplyed and no ballast.
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Old Today, 16:13 (Ref:4233177)   #517
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I’m somewhat ambivalent on the removal of hybrid, I don’t have any desire to watch an all electric BTCC but the hybrid system was a good compromise. I guess what they will look at is things like how many genuine sponsors and investors were actually there or were attracted in the last two years purely down to the hybrid aspect - genuine question. I’d be willing to bet the answer is none or very few.
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Old Today, 16:33 (Ref:4233180)   #518
TinTopGrumpy
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Originally Posted by coffinpilot View Post
I only hope this doesn't take us back to 2022 if there is less power to be deplyed and no ballast.
They say in the article that the power boost will be the same as 2024 (60hp) but will come from the turbo rather than the 50/50 split with the hybrid so there won't be less power but the cars will be lighter.
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Old Today, 16:55 (Ref:4233183)   #519
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
Someone said Pearson had been testing with them and it did look a bit like his helmet at a glance, but I didn’t look all too closely so might be wrong.
Photo from the day uploaded on a facebook page today
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Old Today, 16:57 (Ref:4233184)   #520
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Originally Posted by TinTopGrumpy View Post
They say in the article that the power boost will be the same as 2024 (60hp) but will come from the turbo rather than the 50/50 split with the hybrid so there won't be less power but the cars will be lighter.
I believe this was an unanimous decision from the teams to move forward without hybrid.
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Old Today, 17:06 (Ref:4233186)   #521
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Originally Posted by Racing_Dad View Post
Photo from the day uploaded on a facebook page today
Matches Pearson’s.

Last edited by Evantra; Today at 17:14.
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Old Today, 17:27 (Ref:4233191)   #522
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Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
I’m somewhat ambivalent on the removal of hybrid, I don’t have any desire to watch an all electric BTCC but the hybrid system was a good compromise. I guess what they will look at is things like how many genuine sponsors and investors were actually there or were attracted in the last two years purely down to the hybrid aspect - genuine question. I’d be willing to bet the answer is none or very few.



How many sponsors were/are actually invloved in anything Hybrid on any of the cars ?? I have no idea either, Joe Public would care less. Having a silly flashing light on the back window didnt work either and was the only indication to a unknowing spectator that the cars had them fitted.

EV Cars in general have been a total disaster, and i wouldnt touch one with a bargepole. Makers are selling even less and I wonder
what is the secondhand prices situation.


Good riddance to Hybrid a pointless and very expensive exercise.
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