Changes at Pukekohe

[flyingduck]

I for one don't understand some of the changes at the track

http://www.countiesracing.co.nz/asse...LITY%20(3).pdf

If you click on the link above you can see a map of the track.

My Problems

1, Race Control is now in a place where you can see none of the track which is terrible for non tv events
2, No changes seem to be happening to the track after the hairpin, One of the walls is straight of the track so makes for a sharp stop if anyone hits it
3, Would have liked to see more of a chase complex (from bathurst) instead of what looks like 2 90 degree corners

Be interested to hear what you all think

[Goat Boy]

Yes the "three extra corners" are all part of the chicane. Nothing else changed from what I can see.

Will the new pit structure last longer than the last one? Will the new structures obscure even more of the track? Will Auckland Council instruct itself not to be so vigilant on the noise front?

[Denosaur]

Judging by the pictures, it looks like V8SC are going to bring in there own pit building that they had made up for Sydney, Hamilton and Albert Park.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Denosaur

Judging by the pictures, it looks like V8SC are going to bring in there own pit building that they had made up for Sydney, Hamilton and Albert Park.

i believe its the hamilton infrastructure relocated

[Umai Naa]

There really isn't much they can do to the layout with adding a few corresponding chicanes and hairpins to the horseracing track...

... which in my mind, wouldn't be a bad thing!

[RogerH]

Noted the "new impact absorbing concrete barrier to the entire track".

Don't know how impact absorbing concrete is??

This could be a concern for the non-saloons cars as single seaters may find the Pukekohe track more dangerous with concrete barriers at track side being very unforgiving. Currently there are some grass runoff areas at Pukekohe where you at least have a chance to pull up or spin if there is an off track excursion. Now it looks like it will be straight into a concrete wall (although it is of course impact absorbing).

[peckstar]

Wouldnt the impact absorbing concrete barries be placed at the edge of the run off areas ratehr than at the edge of the track?

[flyingduck]

I hope they make a concrete run off at the esses as I have seen a few cars go off and straight in the wall that separates the back straight and it is more of a problem when the grass is wet.

Peckstar in places like the first corner there is no run off so there has been som major accidents there over the years

[Purist]

I must say, I don't really care for the configuration change (chicane). I don't recall a particularly bad incident at the hairpin involving cars careering off the end. The run-off there didn't exactly look tiny either. Frankly, I found most of the other corners FAR more worrying. The front stretch could use a verge, on both sides. Run-off at Turn 1 is good, but I'd want the barrier to be in enough by Turn 2 that you couldn't just straight-line past Turn 2, and nail somebody in 3 and 4. The penultimate corner, and pit-in, have long been problematic, a bit like the old set-up at Laguna Seca, and there appears to be no real change at that point.

I don't know that the entry to that chicane is tight enough to be a very good overtaking zone on its own. In addition though, it's right after the bend in the back stretch. This means there's really no room to straighten out on the outside line, line the guy up, pull out, get alongside, and then outbrake him, as was the car with the run to the hairpin. Taking the inside line through the bend blocks guys getting an inside run, and the bend being right there means that you'll be significantly more compromised on your line to make the corner even trying an inside move approaching the chicane.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that the run out of the chicane to the hairpin will NOT be long enough to make a serious attempt at overtaking into the hairpin itself anymore.

[isoskim]

I would assume the "new" race control building is going to be relocated from Hamilton. This was fitted with TV screens showing all corners and full view of the track. I would hope V8SC and PPR have considered this, and hopefully will install cameras around the circuit as Hamilton did to remove the concern that they cannot see the full circuit from their new location.

[flyingduck]

Originally Posted by Purist

I must say, I don't really care for the configuration change (chicane). I don't recall a particularly bad incident at the hairpin involving cars careering off the end. The run-off there didn't exactly look tiny either. Frankly, I found most of the other corners FAR more worrying. The front stretch could use a verge, on both sides. Run-off at Turn 1 is good, but I'd want the barrier to be in enough by Turn 2 that you couldn't just straight-line past Turn 2, and nail somebody in 3 and 4. The penultimate corner, and pit-in, have long been problematic, a bit like the old set-up at Laguna Seca, and there appears to be no real change at that point.

I don't know that the entry to that chicane is tight enough to be a very good overtaking zone on its own. In addition though, it's right after the bend in the back stretch. This means there's really no room to straighten out on the outside line, line the guy up, pull out, get alongside, and then outbrake him, as was the car with the run to the hairpin. Taking the inside line through the bend blocks guys getting an inside run, and the bend being right there means that you'll be significantly more compromised on your line to make the corner even trying an inside move approaching the chicane.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that the run out of the chicane to the hairpin will NOT be long enough to make a serious attempt at overtaking into the hairpin itself anymore.

I agree they are going to make it a pretty hard place to pass if the chicane does not give good opportunities. I just think they have papered over some cracks and not addressing some of the real issues the track has dissappointing.

[Point2]

Shame they just cancelled thunder in the park so they can make the track changes.
Was a good event. Was even going to enter this year.

[Jerico]

It would be great if after the changes, the track could still be used in it's old configuration. Pukekohe has a lot of history and I think it would be a shame to loose that and all the lap times that have gone before. Supercars have stated the back straight is just to fast, for safety. They are not the fastest cars to use the track. Two things to do slow down the track or slow down the cars. Drop the revs & final drive? I think the upgrade is a good thing just don't like the layout having to change for good. If that is what's going to happen.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Jerico

It would be great if after the changes, the track could still be used in it's old configuration. Pukekohe has a lot of history and I think it would be a shame to loose that and all the lap times that have gone before. Supercars have stated the back straight is just to fast, for safety. They are not the fastest cars to use the track. Two things to do slow down the track or slow down the cars. Drop the revs & final drive? I think the upgrade is a good thing just don't like the layout having to change for good. If that is what's going to happen.

If you look at the pdf there is some hope that the original layout will still be able to be used. I agree that the two most terrifying places on the track are the entry onto the front straight and the turn at the end of the front straight. I remember a photographer in that position when the Supercars were there, one ran off and straight into his "protected" area leaving him with a broken leg from memory...

[socram]

Originally Posted by Purist

I must say, I don't really care for the configuration change (chicane).
I don't know that the entry to that chicane is tight enough to be a very good overtaking zone on its own. In addition though, it's right after the bend in the back stretch. This means there's really no room to straighten out on the outside line, line the guy up, pull out, get alongside, and then outbrake him, as was the car with the run to the hairpin. Taking the inside line through the bend blocks guys getting an inside run, and the bend being right there means that you'll be significantly more compromised on your line to make the corner even trying an inside move approaching the chicane.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that the run out of the chicane to the hairpin will NOT be long enough to make a serious attempt at overtaking into the hairpin itself anymore.

My sentiments exactly. I also agree that if we can use the existing layout, that will be great.
From the enlarged version of the pic, it looks as though they are putting concrete barriers to the right hand side of the main straight. The whole point of a permanent track is surely, that concrete is only used for protection, and not to form a shute/tunnel where there is no room for error or to park a dead car?
As one who had a bad accident (to the car, not me) exiting the last corner as there was no escape route, I am not convinced about some of the so called extra safety measures.

[fordo]

Only 2 incidents of note at the hairpin that I can remember are Dave Silcocks Jag and also Grant Walker in the ex Fahey Capri both ending up down in the creek. Different meetings of course.

Why couldn't they have just reinstated theold chicanes on the back straight and on top of the hill ?
A hell of a lot cheaper !

[flyingduck]

Is the kink any faster than conrod going into the chase???

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by socram

My sentiments exactly. I also agree that if we can use the existing layout, that will be great.
From the enlarged version of the pic, it looks as though they are putting concrete barriers to the right hand side of the main straight. The whole point of a permanent track is surely, that concrete is only used for protection, and not to form a shute/tunnel where there is no room for error or to park a dead car?
As one who had a bad accident (to the car, not me) exiting the last corner as there was no escape route, I am not convinced about some of the so called extra safety measures.

Concrete walls have replaced armco at most Oz tracks and by & large it's a better option. Question is of course as you rightly point out just how far back from the track the concrete barriers will be.

Personally I wouldn't be getting worked up either way on the strength of a promotional pdf - have to wait and see what the detail is I guess.

[Fairlane GTA]

Originally Posted by Point2

Shame they just cancelled thunder in the park so they can make the track changes.
Was a good event. Was even going to enter this year.

Is that confirmed? Feared it may be so, but heard nothing official.

[Point2]

Originally Posted by Fairlane GTA

Is that confirmed? Feared it may be so, but heard nothing official.

Confirmed. Statement sent to ss2000 and gtrnz

[isoskim]

Originally Posted by Fairlane GTA

Is that confirmed? Feared it may be so, but heard nothing official.

http://www.nzigp.co.nz/?id=150

[Purist]

The fastest spot on the V8s calendar is easily the Conrod Straight, by 15-20km/h. Heck, Mountain Straight can't be a whole lot shorter than the back straight at Pukekohe.

Some other long straights in V8 Supercars (in no particular order):
1. Hidden Valley (Front Straight)
2. Surfers Paradise (Front Stretch)
3. Symmons Plains (Back Stretch)
4. Eastern Creek (Front Straight)
5. Townsville (Front Stretch)
6. Philip Island (Gardner Straight)
7. Abu Dhabi (Back Stretch(es))
8. Sandown Park (Front and Back Stretches)
9. Austin (Back Stretch)*

Almost all of these are 900m or more in length, and all see speeds of 265-285km/h.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Purist

The fastest spot on the V8s calendar is easily the Conrod Straight, by 15-20km/h. Heck, Mountain Straight can't be a whole lot shorter than the back straight at Pukekohe.

Some other long straights in V8 Supercars (in no particular order):
1. Hidden Valley (Front Straight)
2. Surfers Paradise (Front Stretch)
3. Symmons Plains (Back Stretch)
4. Eastern Creek (Front Straight)
5. Townsville (Front Stretch)
6. Philip Island (Gardner Straight)
7. Abu Dhabi (Back Stretch(es))
8. Sandown Park (Front and Back Stretches)
9. Austin (Back Stretch)*

Almost all of these are 900m or more in length, and all see speeds of 265-285km/h.

I think the current Pukekohe back straight is about 1220m and the new configuration around 910m.

[socram]

I presume the actual track alrerations may in fact suit the Formula Juniors and smaller engined cars that reach peak revs early!

[Purist]

Jerico and FlyingDuck commented about the speed. I was simply pointing out that the original straight is not unprecedented in length, or particularly, in speed.

Thanks for that figure comparison, RH. On the 2005 coverage, the commentators said the back stretch at Pukekohe was 1250m, so what you said sounds about right. And that 910m for the shortened straight looks about right from that pdf file.

Some of those other straights I mentioned are definitely over 1km, like the straight at Hidden Valley, which is 1100m or 1133m, depending on the sources I've found.

Of course, if the issue is speed, the back stretch at Pukekohe has slow corners at both ends, and is therefore no quicker than Gardner Straight at Philip Island, even though the latter is ~400m shorter.

As for run-off issues, Mountain Straight at Bathurst is at least 1km long, and has NO run-off whatsoever! David Besnard got out of a worst case accident there last year, and I think the fuel cell on the new cars is supposed to be rather better protected.

The irony now is that they'll almost certainly be going faster into Turn 1 than into the chicane. And the entry to Turn 1 has NO run-off on either side at all!

My guess about that added wall on the inside of the front stretch, is that they want to reduce the apparent funnel between the walls approaching Turn 1, by just making the whole thing narrow within the barriers.

The lower formulae wouldn't have the backing to get these changes through and implemented, and if it was that big a concern, I think that they would have left the track some time ago. The changes are happening because of, and for, V8 Supercars.

P.S. The BNT V8s seemed to do quite well on the original Pukekohe at the beginning of this year.