Pitlane Speed Limit

[Snapper Baz]

It seemed that everybody was against the qustionable 20mph speed limit in the Snet pit lane-yes safety is upermost but...many of those cars have great difficulty driving at 20 mph even in 1st gear-maybe 25 or 30 mph but 20 is extremely tiresome on the cars surely! Also, would it not be possible for the strating driver to be nominated WELL before the start for us journo's and the commentators to be informed unlike Snet' where Brian Jones "etc" more often than not talked about the wrong driver out in the car.

[Snapper Baz]

Should read "Starting" driver.

[johngeorge]

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
It seemed that everybody was against the qustionable 20mph speed limit in the Snet pit lane-yes safety is upermost but...many of those cars have great difficulty driving at 20 mph even in 1st gear-maybe 25 or 30 mph but 20 is extremely tiresome on the cars surely! Also, would it not be possible for the strating driver to be nominated WELL before the start for us journo's and the commentators to be informed unlike Snet' where Brian Jones "etc" more often than not talked about the wrong driver out in the car.

Hi can i just agree on the subject of pit lane speed limits , my data log on the Integra only starts at about 14 mph and is pretty inacurrate at such low speed , also my diff is trying hard to lock itself up all the way up the pit lane at those speeds, somewhere between 40-50 mph would be sensible after all the Britcars drivers are no muppetts they are more than capable of keeping it safe in the pitlane .

[james tucker]

Hi John...
when we get to our full grids there will be 450 people in the pit lane.....no-one thinks of the drivers as muppets
but when the first person gets hurt or worse you can make the phone call....one driver was very very nearly run down
at the 4 hr, if it had been 30mph he would have been sitting with his leg up....at the ring in the 24hr there 7000 staff and it is as safe as we are going to make our pit lane....25mph is being discussed with the MSA safety officer, but I am against it.
sportingly
james

[Steve Wood]

Watching the BTCC live from Snetterton on TV yesterday evening, my 16-year old son, now a seasoned veteran of the Britcar pitlane, was appalled at the speeds that the tourers entered and left. I reminded him that the TOCA pitlane is more tightly controlled regarding personnel (I believe that pit-wall staff are limited, and not allowed to move once there). As a non-driver, I enjoy the freedom to roam (always safely, and with due consideration for those with a proper job to do).

[jase]

Originally posted by Steve Wood
Watching the BTCC live from Snetterton on TV yesterday evening, my 16-year old son, now a seasoned veteran of the Britcar pitlane, was appalled at the speeds that the tourers entered and left. I reminded him that the TOCA pitlane is more tightly controlled regarding personnel (I believe that pit-wall staff are limited, and not allowed to move once there). As a non-driver, I enjoy the freedom to roam (always safely, and with due consideration for those with a proper job to do).

Steve, you are correct, TOCA pit personel are not allowed to cross the lane without an officials permission to do so. This keeps the lane a lot safer. Pit lanes are crowded, you only have to look at Spa to realise how bad it can sometimes get.

As an occasional photographer in the Britcar pitlane, it is very crowded, but because of the low speed very safe. While I feel that 20mph can be seen to be too slow, in a crowded lane like Britcar has it is imperitive to maintain pit safety.

[Snapper Baz]

A good number of drivers at the last round were seemingly at the correct speed while a good few that I watched were doing at least 30mph (ish) and got no penalty or talking to. This was noted by a number of other people...maybe the bloke with the speed gun often went to sleep or had been payed with a few drinks beforehand! Anyway, it didn't seem to be...how can we say...applied fairly at all times!!

[Simon S]

I used to think that 20 was too slow,

Having now been though the pit lane at Snett some half dozen times last race, I can say it's about right, there are just too many people about for any more speed..

Only place where this would be a real issue is Silverstone, due the the overall lenght of the pit lane, and from memory, the 20 limit was not the entire pit lane lenght...

[johngeorge]

Originally posted by james tucker
Hi John...
when we get to our full grids there will be 450 people in the pit lane.....no-one thinks of the drivers as muppets
but when the first person gets hurt or worse you can make the phone call....one driver was very very nearly run down
at the 4 hr, if it had been 30mph he would have been sitting with his leg up....at the ring in the 24hr there 7000 staff and it is as safe as we are going to make our pit lane....25mph is being discussed with the MSA safety officer, but I am against it.
sportingly
james

Hi James thanks for the reply and i do take your point , i suppose i am more used to the 45mph we run at TOCA events but given a bit of thought there are a lot fewer people . But please spare a thought for that locking diff and go with that 25mph
see you soon
John

[wyzard]

I think the speed limit is for the best, but it is sooooo hard to keep to especially when most of the cars do not have speedos. I guess the usual go as slow as possible applies, that said I still got a stop go penalty in the four hour at snet for 31 mph! oops!

[Steve Wood]

Pardon my ignorance, but do pit lane speed limits only apply to series that take mandatory pit stops, or do they apply across the board, but to a lesser or greater degree ?

If, as Wyzard says, your car has no speedo, how do you succesfully limit your speed without a limiter/governor, and how much tolerance do the officials apply ?

[Piglet]

Can I add another question to Steve's collection? Why are there so many people in the pit lane? IMO a pit lane is a place of danger no matter what speed limit is in place.

[Bob Pearson]

Steve,
I've never seen a pit-lane speed limit applied at a meeting where mandatory pit stops aren't required. I believe there is a something in the regs about driving at a reasonable speed, although I haven't heard of anyone being pulled up for breaking that, and generally I think most people are sensible about it. You are right, without a speedo or custom built device the driver would have little idea of his speed in terms of miles per hour, although his judgement of what is safe could still be applied.

[avsfan733]

when i used to kart, there was no speed limit in the pitlane, and there were regularly people crossing the hot pits to the wall but because of the nature of all of it it wasn''t a real safey issue most times although once in a while someoone would make a dumb move. From my car racing experience with rules that read reasonable, I think that that is to open for interpretation whether or not pit stops are required. With the small pitlanes we see, there are just to many people for anyhing but the lowest reasonable limit, however I also realize the problems face by people with no speedo or with locking diffs

[goforit500]

I've been pulled up once at Snetterton for speeding in the pit lane at a BRSCC meeting. They marshals could not tell me what the limit was other than I had been percieved to be going too quickly !!

[Piglet]

A usual speed limit is 60kph, and it's usually set by championship reg's or final instructions for the meeting.

Often there is only an "advisory" speed limit. The issue of penalties for speeding during non pit stop races doesn't often come up as if a car is in the pit lane chances are it's well off the pace anyway or retiring in which case a clerk would probably just have a word with the driver.

To be fair to the situation you refer to Goforit500 - if you spend long enough in a pit lane you get a good feel for what is a "normal" speed, but obviously a marshal should know the speed limit and should be using a properly calibrated (sp?) speedgun to be able to take any action.

[candfracing]

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
It seemed that everybody was against the qustionable 20mph speed limit in the Snet pit lane-yes safety is upermost but...many of those cars have great difficulty driving at 20 mph even in 1st gear-maybe 25 or 30 mph but 20 is extremely tiresome on the cars surely! Also, would it not be possible for the strating driver to be nominated WELL before the start for us journo's and the commentators to be informed unlike Snet' where Brian Jones "etc" more often than not talked about the wrong driver out in the car.

Barry, it was only put at 20mph so that you could have a chance of taking a photo.

[goforit500]

It's a difficult one Pig....

If I come into the pits during qualifying there are several things going on...

1. I've just been travelling at up to 170MPH
2. Guaging what is reasonable after that is relative !!
3. If there is an issue there should be mandatory limiters for all classes

or

A lights system that indicates the speed of cars in the pitlane.

I have no issues with a pitlane limit and have worked the pits so know the dangers - I do object for getting a "talking to" when there is no objective evidence...

[JimW]

Interesting issues

How do you judge speed in a race car? Most have no speedo and I reckon relying on a driver watching a tacho and not what is happening in front of them is poor systems thinking.

What speed should cars be doing in the pit lane? 60kph (37mph) seems a common limit. Given that we quite often expect pedestrians, including children, to cope with this on the road (and in two directions!) this does not seem excessive. To me (as a marshal who used to work in the pits) 20mph seems very sloooooow.

450 people in the pit lane. Surely this is what is wrong? I have not yet had the pleasure of a Britcar race (27th September is booked) so no chance to see the format etc. but suppose that there are 30 cars; that is 15 people in the pits per car. How is that justified? How many workers are needed. Two signalling (three?), but they should not be in the pit lane. When the car comes in you might need:

• Next driver
• Team manager
• Three (or four) to work on the car

So that's five (or six). And that's a maximum, I guess that many teams may have fewer people?

And all of those should be out of the pit lane except when their car is coming in. (And no, but on grounds of safety they should not be allowed to rush to the signalling area to watch - sorry).

TOCA pit personnel are not allowed to cross the lane without an official's permission to do so. This sounds like something TOCA has got right.

How do you measure/punish excessive speedWell how about the series organisers buying one of those pestilential and annoying speed warning signs (radar sensor driven) which measure the speed of oncoming cars and then flash up a really annoying message. That helps drivers know if they are too fast. Then a little further into the lane you have your usual speed gun for enforcement.

Just some thoughts.

Regards

Jim

[Piglet]

Originally posted by goforit500
It's a difficult one Pig....

....I do object for getting a "talking to" when there is no objective evidence...

I think I was agreeing with you gfi500 It doesn't seem right to reprimand a driver without evidence of speeding and I think 20mph is too low.

As to judging the speed, I think that's one for the drivers to deal with (assuming the speed limit is reasonable), madatory limiters would presumably just add costs to the competitors and we know how much you don't like that

I'm with Jim, we seem to be making a habit of this todayabout numbers of people in the pit lane. I think in the Powertour days the GT teams used to get issued with 6 team passes that were valid for the pit lane and that to me seems a reasonable number for a driver change scenario. The pit lane is dangerous for all sorts of reasons as well as the speed of the cars. Keep the guests, sponsors and non essential personnel out of the pit lane completely and the rest of the crews out unless their car is coming in on the following lap.

On a pedantic point, I would imagine that a mph speed limit might cause a logistical problem, most limits now are in kph and the speed guns are calibrated accordingly. I've come across a scenario previously where a mph gun was used on a kph limit and the stewards weren't happy with that being used to impose penalties. How many clubs have speedgun calibrated in mph?

As for the flashing board thingie, my guess is that would come down to money as well...

[james tucker]

Piglet,interesting points, thank you...
25mph is 40klh we have aquired a speed gun that does both..
also we are going to get a road alert tyre sign, which lights up that can be used like at Wimbledon for the speed of the ball, so that spectators can see whats going on but for the drivers will have no excuses...
27th sept with luck at THRUXTON will see them in use.

[Snapper Baz]

What else is racing that day James please as I should be at Brands for Mini Miglia/Se7en practice for Mini Magazine but this sounds far more tempting!

[james tucker]

QUALIFYING GROUP SIGN ON SCRUTINEERING
09.10 09.25 MODIFIED PRODUCTION SALOONS 07.40 07.55 07.55 08.55
09.35 09.50 CATERHAM GRADUATE 08.05 08.20 08.20 09.20
10.00 10.15 2 CV 08.30 08.45 08.45 09.45
10.25 10.40 FERRARI 08.55 09.10 09.10 10.10
10.50 11.05 SUPER GRADUATE 09.20 09.35 09.35 10.35
11.15 11.45 Britcar 09.45 10.00 10.00 11.00

[Snapper Baz]

Craig, after Rockingham, I have mastered the art of taking pictures of slow cars...there was this No7 Mighty Mini, sort of white in colour. This car helped me practice with slow shutter speeds all day!