Blueprint VY (merged)

[Grimace]

So when exactly will we finally have FULL BLUEPRINT spec
VYs AND BAs running 2004,extension 2005,2006 LOL extension LOL!!!!!!

[GTRMagic]

As long as Skaife keeps telling everyone that the Aurora is shyte, and sustains his current performance level, the other teams in the HMS group will not want to switch.

I feel sorry for the Tasman boys and girls... seems that junky engines that were at PWR last year have been passed on to these guys... although they seem better than the previous JSR sourced equipment!

I can remember Penske having an Ilmor engine some years ago, and every time it was put in a car, it was a slug, or blew up, or caused other component failures. It was identical to all the others in rotation, but this one rogue engine was just unusable... in a rare showing of defeat, the team binned it.... putting it into a show car somewhere to try and get rid of the bad luck it brought!!!

Some teams that have run both the Aurora and the VX engine have found there is very little difference between them, the Aurora is slightly worse in some cases....

[rustyinsthoz]

Both engines that the Holden teams run conform to blueprint specs .

[GTRMagic]

Yes they do, but the HMS powerplants were redeveloped over the off season to Blueprint spec, as previously the engines contained lightweight parts.

[sizzle]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
I feel sorry for the Tasman boys and girls... seems that junky engines that were at PWR last year have been passed on to these guys... although they seem better than the previous JSR sourced equipment!

LRT engines came from Dave Morris at Race Engine Developments (RED) in Melb. Currently performance would appear to be very similar.

[GTRMagic]

Not quite... there are specific units in the rotation that were not loved by the 2003 title contender... and they were in the car in practice at big meetings like Bathurst... despite the driver's distaste for them....

Not all HMS engines are the same, and this is something someone very close to the inner sanctum also tried to tell me... while I always thought business dealings were entirely honourable in this area...

[mmciau]

If money and time permits (TLC), there will always be some engines with just a littler more edge than others even though assembled and tested in the same workshop.

Mike

[Also a Believer]

How about in the interest of closer racing the engines be manufactured and sealed and supplied to the teams, would bring FPR forward.

Before you shoot me down I was just kidding, we are never going to see equallity in engines it is another avenue of the more money you spend the better they perform anthough there is one obvious exception to the rule

[1200Datto27]

That's how Mitsubishi/Toyota could enter the series, official engine supplier!

[Peregrine]

Originally posted by Bigguy
A little history lesson....

Project Blueprint was signed off by Holden, and, come on, help me here... F O R D .

So if you have a problem with the outcome, take it up with whoever you think sold you out.

I am not a Holden fan, just sick of the bleating. I would be just as peed off if the whinge was from the other side....

Yes, Project Redprint was signed off by both Ford and Holden. Only problem is that the original spec has not been adhered to. Why is Holden still allowed to run any number of *******ised variations of the Commodore some 15 months after it was signed off ? Can you also tell me why there has been no "calculations" done as specified in Redprint to measure the parity between makes after every 4 rounds as originally slated ?

[aj_308]

are there enough full-spec blueprint VY's to do it?

[Peregrine]

Valid point !!!

[v8fan]

i really don't understand all this redprint ****. at the end of the day parity was the desired effect, with a championship in the bag and the current lead i fail to see where all the constant whinging is coming from. i also fail to see where running the old engine is an advantage either, the change will have to be made eventually and at this stage of the game the old engine shows no more pace than the new anyway. if it is ford dominance being the parity so desired then it will never be achieved, just even competition.

[SRabbit]

the problem is it isn't Ford domination - usual results go :

1stFord 2nd Holden 3rd Holden 4th Holden 5th Holden 6th Holden 7th Ford 8th Holden 9th Holden 10th Holden

[Bigguy]

Originally posted by SRabbit
the problem is it isn't Ford domination - usual results go :

1stFord 2nd Holden 3rd Holden 4th Holden 5th Holden 6th Holden 7th Ford 8th Holden 9th Holden 10th Holden

But surely this demonstrates that a Ford CAN win under the current parity, so the problem is not parity, but the ability of the other Fords to get their act together?

[jaytor]

Spot on Bigguy!

[v8fan]

definately, clasping defeat from the jaws of victory or simply consistently making errors or having bad luck is as realted to parity as my shoelace. i can understand the frustration, but look at race 1 nz. ford, holden, ford, holden, ford, holden top 6.

[Conrod Kieron]

We have rules that where signed off by both manufacturers and now we have one side coming up with excuses.
The problem is nothing to do with one engine is better or worse than the other, its the fact that the rules have been rewritten, making a mockery of the whole process.

A cynic would say the Holden teams have recognised the Aurora needs more work than initially thought to get up to speed and are buying time with these excuses

[SRabbit]

I remember when the initial testing was done to take the downforce measurements that the Holdens had significantly higher levels in the front end when the radiator was placed in different locations. Does Blueprint only allow for the new radiator position with the new engine - or can they have the position with the greater downforce whilst the old engine is still installed?

[Peregrine]

Those in the red corner seem to be missing my point that Redprint has been agreed to but the Red side are not adhering to it and those in a position to enforce it are not.......simple to follow I would have thought.

[Conrod Kieron]

Spot on Peregrine. I wonder what the likes of Perkins would do if it were Ford dragging there feet

[Average Punter]

arcasm light on:

In the interests of parity, in 2005 all teams will be allocated control tyres, ECU and gearboxes.

Unless of course you want to use your own gear from last year because you think it's better...

arcasm light off:

[Grimace]

Originally posted by Peregrine
Those in the red corner seem to be missing my point that Redprint has been agreed to but the Red side are not adhering to it and those in a position to enforce it are not.......simple to follow I would have thought.

Peregrine is TOTALLY correct!!!!

The RED side wont comply 17 MONTHS LATER !!!!!!!!!!!

Bright won this year in a NON BLUEPRINT COMPLIANT VY!!!

RED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>extensions, extensions, we need extensions etc etc etc

[Grimace]

Originally posted by Conrod Kieron
Spot on Peregrine. I wonder what the likes of Perkins would do if it were Ford dragging there feet

Perkins would be screaming for justice if the tables were turned .........................................

I F a NON BLUEPRINT COMPLIANT Falcon was winning 17 months later and all VYs were full Blueprint compliant.

The red side has to agree!

[stmorri]

Originally posted by Peregrine
Those in the red corner seem to be missing my point that Redprint has been agreed to but the Red side are not adhering to it and those in a position to enforce it are not.......simple to follow I would have thought.

You're coming through loud and clear Peregrine, and no fair minded person could disagree with your argument.
Can anyone please shed any light on the engine location of the VY spec Commodore with the old engine? Is it further back in the engine bay as was the VX spec or further forward as the blueprint spec?