Advice for a novice - single seat or sports

[SpartacusF]

I'm retiring soon, and campaigning a 1960s historic is a life ambition. I recognise there is a learning curve and an investment in time, but years (like a decade), may not be on my side. I'd like to be handy in an FJ or similar one day. Am I better off learning the craft in a 750MC MX5 or Locost series or similar, or jump straight into Historic Formula Ford, or something else? Or is this a pipe dream? (The tuition is in hand.)

[MGDavid]

Tricky one. If you want to limit financial exposure in case it turns out to be not for you, then a season or at most two, in something like an MGB or Sprite / Midget could be useful. MX5 and other one-make series are pretty competitive to the point of contact, damage and cost. I've always believed learning the art of racing without banging into people is a better way to start, and will be invaluable if intending to move into historic single seaters.

[midgetman]

I'd avoid "modern" series like the plague. I think a time spent with the CSCC in a road sports car of some kind would be ideal while learning to drive the F Ford in test days. You'll find your relative pace and learn plenty against more mature drivers. Many youngsters are fresh out of karting and have different ideas as to driving styles to us older ones - often because they're not footing the bills!

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[Plantagenet]

Hi,

I'm 3 years in to racing and having been driving a midget in the MGCC midget/Sprite series, but have now got a formula ford and will be racing with classic formula ford with HSCC this year also. So, I can perhaps relate to your question quite well.
My suggestion would be that the FF is not ideal for a first time racer. With a dog hewland box, and much more adjustable set up, they are not as easy to gel with straight off as the midget. The other thing is that the FF series generally do not allow wet specific tyres so when it rains, they really are a handful and again, not ideal for a newbie.
I agree with the suggestions above to avoid the moderns (mx-5, caterhams and definitely the radicals)....but then this is the historic racers area and we are biased . Midgets and other similar classics are relatively forgiving in race trim - think of a normal classic but much faster. Yes, you need to adjust to driving north of 4000rpm but most other things are similar such as a synchromesh gearbox. I can recommend the midget/sprites as a good way to get experience without spending a fortune. CSCC are good similarly and with swinging sixties, you clearly have more choice of vehicles. If you like the more period-authentic racing (so those running 'close to' FIA appendix K), the Equipe series are good and have good grids. These cars are generally dearer though.
Just my thoughts and happy to be PM'd if you'd like to discuss as I was in a similar position a few years' back.

[bauble]

The Morgan Challenge is competitive, friendly and not know for bumping in to each other, however, Moggies are not cheap, and the series is quite limited as to the number of races, but there is still the HSCC Road Sports. One advantage, is several Tenthers do take lots of pictures of Morgans, so you could get a fair bit of coverage. Fame awaits.

In the unlikely event you want to go that route drop me a PM I have the contacts.

What ever you decide always remember (I think) Bernie Ecclestone's advice;
"If you want to make a small fortune in motor racing - start with a big one"

Best of luck,

Bauble.

[delta]

I would look and see what the 750 M/C have to offer. Get along to race meetings and talk to competitors. Formula junior is an excellent formula but you need a hefty budget to buy even the bottom of the ladder car.
I would need to know bit more about you but there is still good racing to be had with a Caterham. They also hold their price very well.
We shall look forward to hearing about your progress. As Bob said "good luck".

[Will Nuthall]

I wouldn't say jumping straight into a HFF is the best option.

Everything is budget dependent of course...but if your ambition is FJ...go for a lower end (not front running) FJ, front engined would be more forgiving.
You will get to meet all the people and be learning using Dunlop tyres.

Otherwise I would learn on something else on Dunlops like MGB as suggested.

HFF cars/tyres less forgiving than a FJ, the cars are also much closer in performance (smaller window of years, less options) so can be demoralising for a complete novice.
That said if you're good in HFF you'll do well in FJ!

[andy97]

I am another advocate of CSCC and if you chose a MGB or midget, depending on spec, it could be a good route from CSCC (including their Appendix K series) through to the MG car club or midget/spridget series and Equipe GTS etc at some nice meetings at home and abroad.
CSCC race are invariably 40 mins with the option of two drivers so you can get loads of track time or share with someone to either keep costs down or to share with your instructor (useful to get real world coaching).
Something quicker that isn’t always considered might be Classic Clubmans which runs on the HSCC programme and there are two classes for 1700cc Crossflow 180(ish) Bhp cars or F Ford 1600 Kent engined cars, both front engined so a bit more forgiving. Possibly less expensive to run than an FJ and easier to drive than a HFF but still eligible for some nice historic meetings.
Depending on your budget, you could probably run both for the cost of an FJ!!

[Alan Morgan]

I tend to agree with Will. Buy an FJ (front engined or drum-braked rear engined are probably the best value) and just have fun. Should travelling to the EU become easier in the future, then you'll have some great events to enjoy. There is a huge difference in performance between a Brabham BT6 and a Stanguellini which means that drivers of differing abilities in cars of different potential can still have a great race together.

In Historic or Classic FF there is very little performance difference in the cars which could well erode your enthusiasm if you continually get lapped by teenaged hotshoes.

[SpartacusF]

Thanks all, very helpful. A Midget-ish car sound like the way to start. I had a couple a long time ago and never really liked the things! Not a fan of Morgans either (I don't want to sound fussy and am sure they are adored by many, just not me!).

What is similar to the Midget, in terms of engagement and learning experience? Budget is sorted.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by SpartacusF

What is similar to the Midget, in terms of engagement and learning experience? Budget is sorted.

A Turner? 3 on race cars direct.com from an ex works cars at £75k to a Modsports car at £45k to a pre-Crossflow engined car at £28k.

Alfa 105 Giulia or Bertone GTV

I am sure plenty of people will be along with alternatives.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by SpartacusF

I'm retiring soon, and campaigning a 1960s historic is a life ambition./ Or is this a pipe dream?

If budget is sorted, storage-transportation-maintenance sorted too, you're sure to love door to door racing, can wait measuring your muscles: Lotus Cortina, Alfa 105 only if GTA, Jaguar Mk1,2, E Type coupé or cab', Big Healey or 100, Lotus Elan only if 26R, TVR Grif' or Grantura… all are very competitive in category, parts ans specialists available, clubs, races, market…
Tempted by one make ambiance but want to stay historic? May be A35 Academy will open Goodwood doors (if A35 races still exist) and GW St Mary's grid will show you how to have fun.

[andy97]

Marcos 1800GT is another option.

[Gerard C]

Indeed, just have to check about the retro homologation thingy and know if you want to enter it as GTP or GTS.

[bauble]

One consideration might be how many races/circuits you want to do in a season. Are you looking for a type of 'full time' career, or a limited number of events. Choosing a series to suit your ambitions may be worth considering, you said you did not fancy the Morgan route, i understand that, I only mention it because it has a limited number of rounds so suits someone who wants an occasional outing, HSCC classes would offer a fuller season for instance.

Just a thought.At least you are not spoilt for choice.

[Geraint Owen]

A few random thoughts....

Single seaters tend to be easier to buy than they are to sell. If you are looking for a toe in the water car and you would need to sell it before buying your next one then you need to ensure you buy something that is easy to move on. Likewise I would only look at something with HTPs

There are lots of options but some of it depends on budget to buy, budget to run and how much of the mechanical work you are looking to do yourself. When looking for a car for the 6hr, a mate and I went for a TR4 not an MGB just to have something different, although not too different. It has been a good choice.

Dont discount running costs. I understand that if paying others to do the work then a full on front of the grid race A series engine is approaching £1000/hr in rebuilds.

You cant get enough track time. a cheaper track day mule is a good thing to have, and could actually replace your first race car. I have a road legal but full caged E46 M3 to skid about in when the mood takes me. A lot of performance for the money. Plus you can break them for close to their value if you do hit the wall.

Most important of all is you need to be in a car you like, not one that is fast/competitive. There is a big but subtle difference between taking your old car motor racing and going motor racing in an old car. People with the former mindset tend to bend their cars less than people with the latter. This is why the VSCC and HGPCA are so good. The HGPCA is a good option, how much more than a top FJ is an F1/F2 Cooper T45?

Just my 2p worth

[GORDON STREETER]

Have you thought about "rent a drive" ?, although you might think that it is expensive it will be cheaper to do a few races like that rather than buying something that you regret in a short time, like someones heap of junk !

[SpartacusF]

Ah good point, probably 6-10 weekends. I'd forgotten how lovely those 60s Alfas are, will take a closer look. There's a Grantura on Race Cars Direct too.

To the original question though, if FJ is really where my heart is, it sounds like I may as well pile straight in?

[Colin McKay]

FJ is a good place to end up but if you want to learn your craft in something less vulnerable then something like MGB/Turner/TR4 in Guards means you can share costs with another driver (or sympathetic prepper ) and learn quicker to boot. If single seaters are your goal then the more time spent in a kart the better. Rock hard slicks on a corporate kart are as close to Dunlop historics as you will find!

[Will Nuthall]

Originally Posted by SpartacusF

Ah good point, probably 6-10 weekends. I'd forgotten how lovely those 60s Alfas are, will take a closer look. There's a Grantura on Race Cars Direct too.

To the original question though, if FJ is really where my heart is, it sounds like I may as well pile straight in?

I would say so yes. Good community throughout the grids, can do less high profile UK events and move on when you feel ready with/without changing car.

If you go into the GT car route you may not drive a single-seater for years, or get stuck in them and never want to change!

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by SpartacusF

Ah good point, probably 6-10 weekends. I'd forgotten how lovely those 60s Alfas are, will take a closer look. There's a Grantura on Race Cars Direct too.

To the original question though, if FJ is really where my heart is, it sounds like I may as well pile straight in?

If you did fancy a 60s Alfa one of my AROC members approached me yesterday saying he was thinking of selling his Giulia Sprint GT that he's raced in CSCC Swinging Sixties....I can put you in touch if it would be of interest. Its not an HTP FIA compliant car as is, though, as it has a 2.0 engine.

[Gerard C]

If FJ is really where your heart is, go for it, dont waste a precious time. IMO.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

If FJ is really where your heart is, go for it, dont waste a precious time. IMO.

Exactly. If you want to race ‘Type A’ then the best place to learn is in there. Possibly a waste of your time and your money racing ‘Type D’ first.

The only thing that could be close to the FJ would really be FF1600. Historic, Classic or maybe Heritage. The latter being the most relaxed and cheapest. The formers being more relevant but pricier.

[Alan Morgan]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

If FJ is really where your heart is, go for it, dont waste a precious time. IMO.

Agreed! FJ has a great bunch of drivers who will welcome you into the fold. You'll always have someone to race with at your level and make some great friends in the process.

Sarah Mitriké does a fantastic job running the many races for FJ and may also know of some suitable cars for sale. Don't think single seaters are daunting - they're not.