AMRS Round 2

[Oaksnaf]

Is on this weekend at Calder Park. Will be interesting to see what sort of numbers they pull over the weekend.

Looking forward to PTCC who seem to be attracting more and more cars to the category, all they need is someone to match Kelly and Searle.

Does anyone have an entry list?

I'll be there in attendance thats for sure.

[kosher_pig]

See u there

[D.R.T.]

The PTCC really does seem to be building momentum and its good to see more different makes rolling out. As you say would be good to see some challengers for the BMW though

[Bullett]

How much to get in? And yes an entry list?

[wishbone]

i might be wrong but i don't think the PTCC will be at calder, there next round is winton.

[Oaksnaf]

You are right, just checked their website and their next round is scheduled for Winton. So what category is replacing them at Calder Park then?

EDIT: Just checked the AMRS website and they have 11 categories that are going to run under the Series this year. Seems very interesting as last year practically every category ran every round with the odd exception.

[birtek]

Funny Tom Drewer and his car could be busy this weekend. Supposedly they are going to be racing at the SA State Motor Racing Championship and the AMRS preview page mentions him to be at calder also. I for one hope he is at Mallala but that is purely for selfish purposes

[Bullett]

Intermarque running, 4000 i guess, touring car challenge, thundersports, hq's...

[Bullett]

super tt, classic touring cars, v8 giants

[stmookeyj033]

Round 2 consists of..

-TCC/Giants
-OzBoss
-Super TT
-3.3 Holdens
-Thundersports
-Intermarque

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by stmookeyj033

Round 2 consists of..

-TCC/Giants
-OzBoss
-Super TT
-3.3 Holdens
-Thundersports
-Intermarque

WOW, 6 times fifteen equals ninety.

(and you lot all said i couldn't add up)

Lucky the numbers are so slim, with rain forecast for Saturday & early Sunday the shortened version of AMRS 2 will be a hoot....

Imagine OZ Boss coming onto a wet VHT'ed front straight (read, Drag Strip), the 5 or 6 that front will end up in about 50 or 60 pieces.......

Oh well, we need the drought to break.......

Roll on Saturday

[trogladyte]

some people are so negative!

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by trogladyte

some people are so negative!

Thanks for that, my therapist will alter my medication....

Some people on this forum need to take stock.

The once might Australian Motorsport community is now effectively decimated, by a governing body that cajole & threaten, and a series promoter that continues to rape the wider motorsport community.

Saturdays poor entry list is simply proof of that.

Oh & by the way, I'll be donating my weekend to be at Calder as a volunteer official, because while I'm negative ( read 'a realist' ) I still believe that things can now only get better, and supporting the minnows, might make a difference.

If you don't like this, PM me.

Better still, dont.

[PVDA]

A warning to anyone coming down from NSW or the NE of the state to Calder that the new point to point speed cameras are about to be turned on on the Hume Freeway.

these cameras measure the time taken to get from camera to camera and if your average time means you are speeding you get booked.

The first camera is at Broadford when heading towards Melbourne from up north.

[Bullett]

I am tempted to go out but I might wait and see the numbers on Natsoft if there isn't a entry list

[Flagger]

I am bit burned out after the GP but am still trying to get there,hope it doesnt rain.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

You are right, just checked their website and their next round is scheduled for Winton. So what category is replacing them at Calder Park then?

EDIT: Just checked the AMRS website and they have 11 categories that are going to run under the Series this year. Seems very interesting as last year practically every category ran every round with the odd exception.

Not really comparable. Last year they started the season with about six categories and added another three, but several of these categories had no entries at all and were categories in name only and others like 3.3 Litre Holdens didn't travel interstate. Others had thin to very thin fields.

There were just 55 cars at the QR round, a round that demanded the spectators pay to enter when two weeks prior at an AASA Top Gear Classic, the crowd was twice/three times the size (free spectator entry), competitor entry fee was about 20% that of the AMRS meet (which was heavily bloated by a TV levee that state level racers had no interest in), and there were over double the cars for roughly the same number of categories and miles on the track and uniformly better racing. There was a 90 minute long lunch break on Saturday caused by three categories no-showing. The situation was not helped by several regular AMRS racers not travelling to interstate rounds further depleting fields, with PTCC most notably hit, but also TCC, while the big name F4000 field numbered less than 10 cars. Competitors voted with their feet.

At times last years AMRS was embarrassing. This year's AMRS looks to be a much improved show. Frankly it had to be. I am also aware that AMRS was basically starting from scratch and that it needed to take baby steps to build an alternative to essentially NMRC. The end result was still very much a negative.

[wishbone]

the PTCC seams to be the only category growing, within the AMRS Schedule, thi stime last year they had 6 cars, from what i have read for winton they will have 18 cars.

[TCR]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

There were just 55 cars at the QR round, a round that demanded the spectators pay to enter when two weeks prior at an AASA Top Gear Classic, the crowd was twice/three times the size (free spectator entry), competitor entry fee was about 20% that of the AMRS meet (which was heavily bloated by a TV levee that state level racers had no interest in), and there were over double the cars for roughly the same number of categories and miles on the track and uniformly better racing. There was a 90 minute long lunch break on Saturday caused by three categories no-showing. The situation was not helped by several regular AMRS racers not travelling to interstate rounds further depleting fields, with PTCC most notably hit, but also TCC, while the big name F4000 field numbered less than 10 cars. Competitors voted with their feet.

I was initially interested in competing in a few of the AMRS rounds in Super TT, but after finding out the entry fee I became quickly disinterested.
Some good things happening here in QLD, including Top Gear meetings, that cater for "budget" minded competitors like myself who just want track time for a reasonable price.

Paul.

[D.R.T.]

What is the comparative entry fees between a Top Gear, AMRS and say a CAMS meeting ?

[Silver 3]

Those last few posts are missing some key issues. The AMRS is a NATIONAL series and has Television coverage. To compare with low level state based meeting is to do yourselves a disservice. The fact that some meetings are held with low costs is nice for competititors-- but you stay at that level and race all the known factors= especially so in Queensland.
The AMRS is the only potential National series for many categories and cars that Cams have excluded from National exposure . The most expensive AMRS category this year is still somewhere between 1/3rd to 1/9th(depending on the class of the car) for similar type cars on the Cams series. So please compare apples when branding it expensive. Another point-- the most expensive category on the AMRS program actually works out cheaper than State series if analysed on per minute of track time per dollar-- and then it offers television on top of that.
To easy to stand back and bag the AMRS--if you are genuine motorsport enthusiasts you too would want to see this alternative succeed.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Those last few posts are missing some key issues. The AMRS is a NATIONAL series and has Television coverage. To compare with low level state based meeting is to do yourselves a disservice. The fact that some meetings are held with low costs is nice for competititors-- but you stay at that level and race all the known factors= especially so in Queensland.
The AMRS is the only potential National series for many categories and cars that Cams have excluded from National exposure . The most expensive AMRS category this year is still somewhere between 1/3rd to 1/9th(depending on the class of the car) for similar type cars on the Cams series. So please compare apples when branding it expensive. Another point-- the most expensive category on the AMRS program actually works out cheaper than State series if analysed on per minute of track time per dollar-- and then it offers television on top of that.
To easy to stand back and bag the AMRS--if you are genuine motorsport enthusiasts you too would want to see this alternative succeed.

I think it was fair comment as AMRS were looking at 'low level state base' for the bulk of its competitors. I was also avoiding comparing AMRS to CAMS as when you do, the arguement becomes emotive and the task of finding your way through the arguement then becomes as clear as a debate of the merits of the Ford Falcon and the Holden Commodore as production road cars. But since you insist on bringing it up, here are a few notes, opinions and replies.

Disenfranchised CAMS categories? That as a line is somewhat stretching the truth. Similar categories is also a bit of a stretch don't you think?

F3 and F4000 (I've forgotten it's new name does anyne recall - super V6 or something) are not comparable as F3 is being used a vehicle to progress talent while F4000 is a series largely used by F4000 owners waiting for the category to be classified historic. They are similar in that they are wings and slicks open wheelers but...

If you expand the point to Oz Boss, well the non-F4000 cars that compete ARE historics are they not? Historics DO have national meetings.

TCC/Giants is not similar to anything. It's a collection of categories not really relevant to each other that have rooves. Butchers Picnic is probably considered offensive, but this is what some race programs would have called this is gone by years.

Formula Kent is an interesting point. From Formula Ford competitors I've spoken to in recent times the engine shift was overdue in the national series and it seems likely that Formula Kent competitors would either not be able to compete or be uncompetitive, so its starting from a second division standpoint and is like comparing Fujitsu series to main game V8Supercars and suggesting that all Fujitsu cars should be allowed to compete in Main Game. Maybe they should but if they did and were only able to compete for say 25th position because of relative ability, then would they? So would Formula Kent team be capable of running top ten nationally? If not, would they bother?

Classic Touring Cars also does have a National Series in the Biante Series, but likely the Classic Touring Car series, which was next to non-existant last year again will again be made up of cars too slow for the Biante series.

Production Touring too is broadly similar to the PCAA series? While it now seems that numbers are either similar or that PTCC is stronger, there is still an existing series.

Thundersports is another Butchers Picnic series. Some TS cars have other national series such as GT or the Intermarque Challenge. Some like the Future Racers tried to and failed (like F4000 in this regard) leaving the leftover cars. Strange as it seems, Future Racer numbers have grown without a national series. Supersports and Sports 1300 is another category that could not find the numbers to run at national level.

Super TT is another group of odds and ends of which three of its four listed component categories do have national series and Improved Production does have interstate series.

XChallenge had a series but collapsed from internal issues. The compenent vehicles are eligible to compete in GT and some do.

Has the HQ Holdens as a group ever expressed a desire to run as a national series? They certainly have numbers to do so if they chose to. Has CAMS blocked them from running a National Series in recent times?

So I dispute your claim of national level exclusion on the above basis. The actual number of cars excluded by CAMS is fairly small. That AMRS finds a way to incude them is to AMRS credit, but not to CAMS detriment. CAMS should not be blamed for the collapses of F4000, Lotus Challenge or Future Racers. There were good reasons for their disappearance, or non-appearance at national level and it does you a disservice to imply otherwise.

As for the basis of cost, well that has some merit, but that merit comes from being second tier competition. If the cars that do run existing national series in comparable classes did show up form AMRS meeting, then the costs for exsitng AMRS competitors would go up if they wanted to compete for the same positions. It's weakness is its strength.

Also - does the track time at dollar for dollar also include transport and accomodation costs for visiting interstate tracks? Does AMRS television represent an improvement on television available for state level series? By way of example, AMRS entry fee was comparable last year to the entry fee for Group N at Bathurst. For a Group N, or Classic Touring Car competitor, then the comparison is ridiculous. Television is meaningless as rules prevent them from running sponsorship, so Group N/CTC racers do not have that mentality. And Bathurst is a much stronger drawcard than any circuit on the AMRS list. Television is not any kind of a silver bullet cure all. If the cateogry is fundamentally unhealthy in any way, then television will expose that rather than improve, no matter how cleverly it is editted. Some state level series has television options and can (but not will, there are no garantees) look far better than a national series television option. I find the track time dollar for dollar claim to be sweeping and prone to be picked apart by individual contrary examples.

I feel AMRS most valuable function is to provide an outlet for those who would ike to compete interstate at a modest level. This is a good thing as it can open competitors to wider possibilities where they might otherwise be trapped at state level. I DO want it to succeed. But 55 cars and three no-show categories is still embarassing. I am not AMRS press service. I'm not going to say it is something that it is not.

My intent is not to 'bag' AMRS, but to be realistic. AMRS created several credibility problems for itself last year which instead of addressing them were allowed to perpetuate and do themselves damage. One example was promoting itself as a series in which you could watch NASCAR racing through the in the end fictional Thunder Road category.

I find AMRS progress in 2007 to be a positive step after 2006. I am going to be involved with AMRS in a small capapcity this year, and will support it to the best of my ability. It deserves a chance.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

What is the comparative entry fees between a Top Gear, AMRS and say a CAMS meeting ?

Leaving aside the issues that Silver 3 believes I ignored, CAMS State Championship ranged last year from $180-$285. AMRS was $750 IIRC. Top Gear was noticeably less than State Champ but I cannot recall by how much.

[D.R.T.]

Thanks for that Falcadore.

In other news good to see Darcy Russel has turned out in his Viper at Calder this weekend.

Qualifying 1 - http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/re...03/2007.CPR.Q2

Qualifying 2 - http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/re...03/2007.CPR.Q5

[Oaksnaf]

Most of the afternoon competition has been delayed until tomorrow morning due to the conditions of the track as there was a severe downpour on the circuit that left the likes of F4000 unable to drive on the extremely slippery surface.