Ferrari and Bridgestone?

[pole2pole]

Over the last few weeks on ten tenths I have read alot about the performance between Michelin and Bridgestone. The question I ask is how big of a role has bridgestone played in Ferraris success over the last number of years. With Michelin this season holding an advantage over bridgestone, it has really provided proof that a tyre advantage is massive.

[Kicking-back]

Ferrari have benefited from their relationship with Bridgestone in the past and are suffering for it at the moment.

The Bridgestones in 2004 certainly seemed a lot more consistent - look at some of Fisichella's one-stop runs in the Sauber.

[Glen]

I think the Michelin has been the better tyre for a couple of years - only now it is much better and Ferrari can't make up the difference. Put it this way, slap a set of Michelins on the Ferrari and give it a few test sessions - it would be some way off perfect but I'm pretty sure it would be the best package at the moment.

[Super Tourer]

Originally Posted by pole2pole

Over the last few weeks on ten tenths I have read alot about the performance between Michelin and Bridgestone. The question I ask is how big of a role has bridgestone played in Ferraris success over the last number of years. With Michelin this season holding an advantage over bridgestone, it has really provided proof that a tyre advantage is massive.

Ferrari and Bridgestone have a close relationship, how this manifests itself is that Bridgestone effectively produce bespoke tyres for Ferrari, and fund a large element of their test program, enabling them to virtually dedicate a test car to tyre development alone.

Bridgestone have also been better in wet but drying conditions (as we saw at Indy 2003 for example) whereas Michelin seem to be lacking a good intermediate tyre.

However, hot track temperatures have been handled better by Michelin, this was demonstrated back in 2003, when unsually hot temperatures across Europe saw Ferrari struggle.

The advantage (if you like) is that Bridgestone have focused virtually all their effort and investment into Ferrari, whereas Michelin have to produce tyres for a wider range of chassis and circumstances.

This of course has worked against Ferrari this year as the new regulations have restricted the amount of testing Bridgestone can do, and they do not supply any other teams who will provide much in the way of meaningfull data.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Super Tourer

This of course has worked against Ferrari this year as the new regulations have restricted the amount of testing Bridgestone can do, and they do not supply any other teams who will provide much in the way of meaningfull data.

Which regulation restricts Bridgestones testing?

[Sodemo]

Amusing comments being splurted by Luca di Montezemolo...

"The championship is more for tyres than for cars," he panned.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=85880

What a total hypicrite.
So when its going your way its all fine and dandy, now you have to fight to win, Ferrari goes and throws the toys out of the pram...

Its a situation of your own creation Ferrari, live with it.

[Marbot]

If we assume there are 5 top teams,and 2 cars in 1 top team have the best tyres,they can watch the other 8 cars struggle behind them.Allthough the other teams will still get some decent points.

But if 8 cars in those top teams have the best tyres,where does that leave the other 2?

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by The Monster

Amusing comments being splurted by Luca di Montezemolo...

"The championship is more for tyres than for cars," he panned.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=85880

What a total hypicrite.
So when its going your way its all fine and dandy, now you have to fight to win, Ferrari goes and throws the toys out of the pram...

Its a situation of your own creation Ferrari, live with it.

Lots of discussion on this at:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68902

[gttouring]

here is a relationshhip that should end, Bridgestone has really shot itself in the foot by only supplying Ferrari with the goods and not seriously using multi team testing. and Ferrari simply imposing this...worst move in 10 years from the red squad

[Red]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Which regulation restricts Bridgestones testing?

The rules do NOT speciffically restrict Ferrari and Bridgestone from testing. However, the rules have been dramatically changed, and THAT hurts. If Bridgestone only had to develop the old tyres that they already knew how to build that would be ok, but that's not the case.

Besides, everyone also accuses Ferrari for not obeying to that stupid 30 days test limit, despite not being a rule.

[Adam43]

I am happy for either of the tyre manufacturers to go about their racing how they see fit. If they did it the same way that would be dull. Sometimes it has worked out best the Bridgestone way, sometimes the Michelin way. Which makes the variety even better.

[Hugh Jarce]

Originally Posted by gttouring

Bridgestone has really shot itself in the foot by only supplying Ferrari with the goods and not seriously using multi team testing.

I think GTT has hit the nail on the head. Bridgestone went so close and exclusive with the 'then winners' that they sacrificed the input, data, testing and set up of many other teams.

Frankly, I think it serves them right and Ferrari too. Let's not be naiive, Ferrari benefitted from this bespoke relationship in the past at the expense of other Bridgestone teams who ended up with Ferrari compounds when it probably didn't suit their chassis as well.

So, its pay back time for 'club exclusive'.

Oh and MontyBazoomers can go and moan in a corner as far as I am concerned.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jarce

I think GTT has hit the nail on the head. Bridgestone went so close and exclusive with the 'then winners' that they sacrificed the input, data, testing and set up of many other teams.

Frankly, I think it serves them right and Ferrari too. Let's not be naiive, Ferrari benefitted from this bespoke relationship in the past at the expense of other Bridgestone teams who ended up with Ferrari compounds when it probably didn't suit their chassis as well.

Yes broadly speaking those are the reasons why it isn't working for them this year. However naive? Ferrari and Bridgestone became partners in 1999 (with 'exclusivity' increasing in that time). Even if they lose this year's titles they will have won 6 WCC and 5 WDC in those seven years! It has worked out well for them.

[Hugh Jarce]

I mean let 'us' not be naiive - not 'them'.

It has served them very well at the expense of others. But it's caught up with them.

I think a few of the old Bridgestone teams who used to get Ferrari tyres must be laughing now.

[Adam43]

yes, the naive thing wasn't on the money, sorry.

Still 5 out of 7 isn't a bad strike rate and worth a year like this!

[Hugh Jarce]

True - but as ever with F1 and the millions of £'s or $'s of sponsorship it's the current year that counts.

If you ain't going forward - you're going back.

[pole2pole]

Some very interesting comments there and I see that all of you have been thinking as much about this as I have. I think the last 4-5 years of formula one has been all about having the best tyre, like for goodness sake take a look at the record book which ferrari have more or less rewrote!. Where was everybody else.....trying to find grip is what I say. If Bridgestone had the advantage this season, it would be so so different

[Mark Edwards]

The red team has been alienating themselves from the rest of the field for some time now. This kind of thing had to happen sooner or later. You can't go it alone and get it right every time. I just wish they weren't so bloody moany when things aren't going their way.

[Super Tourer]

As a footnote to this, you may recall that Schumachers punctured tyres from Imola were sent to Japan for further investigation by Bridgestone.

It appears that the left rear tyre failure was caused due to a structural 'weakness' of the actual carcass. Whereas the left front tyre suffered sudden loss of pressure from a direct puncture, probably from on track debris.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=86063

[Sodemo]

I dont buy that prognosis of the front left tyre blowing due to a puncture.

For one, it does seem like a mighty coincidence that the tyres that were taking the most stress, where the ones that blew, the front and rear left.

Also if you look at Michaels front left tyre just before it blows you can see a huge nasty dark blister in the middle of the tyre.
I think the tyre failed, IMO

[Adam43]

My guess would be that you are right The Monster, but on the subject of probability:

Originally Posted by The Monster

For one, it does seem like a mighty coincidence that the tyres that were taking the most stress, where the ones that blew, the front and rear left.

Mighty coincidence? Assuming a totally random puncture that isn't made more likely by wear then surely it is a 50:50 chance of which side they get a puncture?

[Sodemo]

Heh heh heh, yes im well aware of the fact that cars only have 4 tyres so the odds are rather small, however it does seem more than a coincidence that the precise 2 tyres that were under pressure failed.

[Hugh Jarce]

Having read the Ferrari/Schu report on ITV-F1.com I felt like resurrecting this thread - it seems that Bridgestone seem to be taking a too heavier rap for the lack of performance.

MS - “Unfortunately, the car did not run well this afternoon, as I picked up a vibration that got worse as the session went on, he said.

RB - “I was not very happy with the car today," declared the Brazilian. "In the morning, I was unhappy with the set-up on my brakes and this afternoon, it was a more general difficulty with the set-up and other elements of the package."



I know, let's send the tyres back to the factory for analysis.

[Knowlesy]

Yep, it's clearly more than tyres. As has been said before!

[Hugh Jarce]

But, maybe not by the people that ought to be honest enough to say that!