NASCAR Driver Protection...

[Drummer]

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can clarify; exactly what do NASCAR drivers have to protect them in high energy impacts, besides the obvious cages, helmets and softer barriers? I've been told that these cars are made as absolutely rigid as possible, with no areas of the car made to absorb any impacts. While the term "crumple zone" might not fit here anyway, surely there must be some form of energy absorbing component on the car in certain places? Logic is screaming at me here, but I'd really rather hear the absolute facts from an industry insider; better still, see technical diagrams of the safety components on a NASCAR car.

Note: The guy I'm arguing about this with has also stated that no racecars of any description have anything like this; even though I've seen documentaries about F1 and Indy cars, for example, being made to break apart in high energy impacts, to protect the driver.

I'd just like some proper, wholesome information on this, as opposed to guesses and opinions.

Many thanks.

[Clive Brown]

The sides of Cup and Nationwide cars are packed with energy absorbent foam to protect against side impacts. This is mandatory to the extent that NASCAR officials will prohibit a car with significant damage to the crush barrier from rejoining the race after a stop to repair collision damage.

As far as I am aware, the cars have no other inbuilt deformable structures; it's the circuit boundary walls with SAFER barriers which are energy-absorbing structures.

[Drummer]

Ok, thankyou for that info. So the car isn't designed to break in the areas outside of the rollcaged areas; the bulkhead forward, for example? What I mean is, are these areas built 'tough' on purpose, or are they just generally built rigid enough for the car to function properly? The guy I've been arguing with is basically telling me that the cars are built as solid as a rock and aren't meant to break apart, for example, in the way an Indy or F1 car would do so. What bothers me about the notion of there being no other protection is where two cars collide with each other. I seem to remember reading that NASCAR cars are pretty heavy, when compared to other race cars of the same size, so something like that being hit by an equally large and heavy object at high speed is sure to cause some damage; if the car doesn't absorb the impact, surely the driver must?

[Notso Swift]

Well they are steel, so they will bend/absorb some energy
But there isn't the same sort of crash testing requirement as a F1 car, for example

[Drummer]

Thankyou for your replies. After more searching, I found this: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-r...ar-safety1.htm

Here, it clearly states that the front and rear 'clip' of the car is designed to crush on impact and that the engine is mounted in such a was as it should drop out of the bottom of the car during a front end impact, as opposed to travelling back through the bulkhead.

I didn't think I was that ignorant, lol! I know NASCAR cars are made differently to F1 cars, and they're not open-wheeled either, so there are huge differences, but it does seem like the idea of certain components of the car are designed to dissipate the force of a collision.

Thankyou for the replies, very helpful!

[Clive Brown]

I've read the article, and it seems to be out of date- there's no reference to SAFER barriers, the section on restrictor plates is no longer factually accurate, and the quoted capacity of the fuel cell is incorrect. In particular, there is no reference to the so-called Car of Tomorrow, which is the car raced in Sprint Cup competition today, and its in-built safety features such as the crush protection in the door area. I'm not sure that the CoT really has a front or rear clip; I think that is a throwback to the days when the cars had to use a stock floorpan.

If I were you, I'd e-mail NASCAR, to see what information they can provide!

[Dave Brand]

An interesting video here:

http://www.nascar.com/video/speed/ra...eck/index.html

[Al Weyman]

I have one stripped to skeleton form in my garage, there is no detachable front or rear clip its all one tube frame chassis, this is a late 70's Banjo Matthews chassis which was very much the norm in NASCAR and has been for some while.

[Drummer]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

I've read the article, and it seems to be out of date- there's no reference to SAFER barriers, the section on restrictor plates is no longer factually accurate, and the quoted capacity of the fuel cell is incorrect. In particular, there is no reference to the so-called Car of Tomorrow, which is the car raced in Sprint Cup competition today, and its in-built safety features such as the crush protection in the door area. I'm not sure that the CoT really has a front or rear clip; I think that is a throwback to the days when the cars had to use a stock floorpan.

If I were you, I'd e-mail NASCAR, to see what information they can provide!

I may well contact NASCAR and see what they can tell me, thankyou. I must apologise though, because the particular argument I'm having with this guy relates to cars prior to the CoT being introduced. I really should have mentioned that before, so I'm sorry for that. Any race car safety is interesting though, so it's still a good topic to cover. That video is very interesting, thankyou for posting that! I'd like to see if there will be anything done about that steering column, because that looks to have been a pretty close call there. There's probably a good way of having it separated in shorter lengths, so you don't have one long piece that's basically aimed right at the drivers face.

Al Weyman: The car you have, is the safety cell and chassis of the same spec as, say, a 1999 car?

Many thanks everyone and apologies again for the confusion.

[Clive Brown]

The steering column is interesting. In one of Danica Patrick's recent wrecks in the Nationwide series, her steering column also moves upwards and away from the driver, as Reutimann's did in the Watkins Glen Cup crash. Remember that the vogue in NASCAR is for drivers to sit up very close to the wheel; I could understand this in the days before they had power steering, but don't know why they persist in doing so know.

[Drummer]

Well, I can't speak for racing drivers, but I prefer to sit very close to the wheel in my road car, which obviously means I'm quite close to the pedals. I'm not sure why, I just feel like I'm in the boot if I'm much further back and don't feel so in control of the car. I've driven cars with no power steering and with power steering and, for me, on the road, it changes nothing; I still want to be pretty close to the wheel, which a few people have found strange, as I'm quite long in the legs. It's all personal preference I guess.

[Al Weyman]

Drummer I don't really know how long this spec of car was in but I believe for a good few years certainly early 90's when IROC were using the 3rd gen camaro body shape as the chassis is the same and I believe stayed the same when they went over to Dodge then the later Firebirds as I have seen pictures of those and it didnt look like much had changed. BTW I cannot stand sitting over the wheel of a race car and when I drove my mates American prepared Mustang at Daytona last year that was like that and I hated it maybe more to do with the size of my belly!.

[Drummer]

Ok that's interesting, thankyou. So, I guess these front and rear 'clips' could have come in afterwards then.

Talking of bellies; mine is getting bigger now, so maybe I'll end up re-thinking things and otching back a little soon, lol! Gym sesh is needed! XD

[Al Weyman]

Certainly all very solid on the Banjo Matthews chassis and don't detach. Likewise the earlier road car based cars do have a detachable front clip or subframe.

[Clive Brown]

As far as I am aware, the 'clip' was originally a pre-fabricated front or rear section attached to either end of a production-based floorpan to which a tubular roll cage-cum-strengthening bars had been added. The front and rear clips were welded to the centre section, so were never detachable in the sense of being able to unbolt them. This form of construction actually predates Al's IROC Camaro, which is a silhouette car built on a complete bumper-to-bumper Banjo Matthews tube frame chassis.

Today's NASCAR cars are now built on a complete tube frame. The use of the term 'clip' lingers on, and is in casual use to refer to either the front or rear parts of the chassis in general, as opposed to the centre section.

No doubt the Forum's resident NASCAR experts will come online to correct me if I am wrong in the above!

[Dave Brand]

I stand to be corrected on this, but as far as I know "front clip" is just a generic US term for the front bodywork of any car, not necessarily a racing car.

[Drummer]

Ok, thankyou for all your replies and knowledge here; much appreciated!

[Al Weyman]

I think its more the front end at least on GM cars that 'unclips' and all the steering, suspension, engine, transmission sits on this front sub-frame so the whole thing can be unbolted and wheeled away. A mate of mine twisted the front end off on his Camaro at Mallory in an attempt to visit the lake just stopping short. If you had looked at the car you would have thought it finished yet less than a week later with a secondhand clip he had the thing back together and running, a Mustang would probably have been written off as would my 3rd Gen Camaro.