Jordan or BAR??

[Tristan]

Identical engines. Similar budgets. Comparable driver lineup. Wot a battle!! But who do you think will win??

Despite being the "most improved team of last year", BAR are still the great underacheivers; massive budget, former WDC driver and.... bugger all!

Jordan too are forever the bridesmaid, despite promises of future success, last season could only really be described as mediocre. Still, it was better than BAR's (hardly difficult to acheive) and gave Honda bosses enough confidence to provide both with funky Honda works deals. Now, Who will win in what is sure to be one of the best battles of 2001??

[Bononi]

Emotionally I would go for Jordan, a more racing stylish team, with two drivers I like. But I got a bad feeling that BAR will overcome. altough I like JV too, and always tought that Panis is a fast driver, the team as a whole never caught my eyes, maybe because they finished Tyrrell . It is just a tip, that Mr. Villeneuve will make a great year...

[Jay]

Maybe BAR should just use their 2000 car instead of the 2001 (if rules would permit), it has been consistently faster in testing.

My money would be on BAR, as they also have the backing of Honda in chassis development. But, you never know.

[Valve Bounce]

I'll run with Jay - BAR is now the semi works Honda team, whereas Eddie Jordan has much more control over the Jordan team. It remains to be seen how Honda influence will affect the BAR team.

[botsquad]

Originally posted by Tristan

Jordan: last season could only really be described as mediocre.

the only description? uh...not really.

how about.....It totally sucked.

[DNQ]

I personally would say BAR. I think this will be a great year for Olivier Panis. He has shown some serious speed in testing (yes, it is testing, but still...), and I think he will take the fight to Villeneuve.

As for Jordan, I don't think they have the infrastructure to ever make it as a top team, at least not this year. I like Jordan more than BAR, and I think Trulli deserves better, but I don't think they'll ever be better, than say, Ligier in the early 80's. That is, they pick up the odd race win, but never have a real hope of a title.

Anyway, I maybe totally wrong. We'll just have to wait and see!

[Liz]

Jordan of course.

We will see the BAR suffering the same suspension failures as last year Zonta suffered - only when Jacques has them they will be called something other than "The driver is an idiot". And the car is slower than the Prost Ferrari this year so far and is doing little testing because it has so many problems.

Jordan will have to solve that gearbox problem and then they will be right up front with the Prosts.

I like the sound of that too. "Up front with the Prost."

Joordan will prevail.

[RussianFriend]

Jordan!!!!

Even Honda's support can't make Pollok a little smarter. He's not a team manager untill he understand that he's not only JV's friend.

[Orange]

I don't see the debate here, its gonna be BAR!! I definately agree with DNQ about this, Jordan had one good year, finished 3rd in the WCC, but other than that, they're going nowhere. BAR on the other hand is not only fast improving, but they are also going to have a real shot at second or (mor realistically) third place. Also, to all you BAR haters, keep in mind that BAR started completely from scratch 3 years ago, and have come a long way for a new team. Sure, they're budget is big, but they started from scratch. They have raised the bar for new teams entering F1. Lets see Toyota challenge for the WCC 3 or 4 years after entering!!

[Valve Bounce]

I definitely see the BAR chassis improving this year under Honda's "guidance". If I have to tip any team to be the big improver this year, I will have to go with BAR - they have a great driver lineup, drivers who know what it takes to win, know how to win, and both BAR drivers will be regulars on the podium this year.

[EERO]

As much as I like Frenzy and adore Jordan, BAR has the stronger driver pairing and the better infrastructure and I suspect will continue to have a better relationship with Honda.
HHF has reached his peak and Trulli has proven he's fast but I doubt that first win will come in a Jordan.
With regard to Zonta vs. Panis as JV's teamate, I believe that Zonta is fast and skilled but that youth and inexperience, and naivite were his undoing at BAR. Panis is more mature and resilient and I suspect that Honda won't cotton to ******* and Co. favoring JV at Olivier's expense.

BAR is on the ascendency and have momentum. Jordan lost momentum last season amnd will take time to get back on track.

[Holly]

Both teams were not bad last year, although Jordan should have done so much better! I would say that the drivers are equally good also, but my vote goes to BAR because I dont like yellow

[Speed]

Honda rules at CART !!!, Honda will at F1, BAR, BAR, BAR !!!

[Dino IV]

It's weird. Panis has shown outstanidg form, motivation and continuence the last year and through testing now and by those odds it seems as if he's gonna wrap up Villeneuve easily. How come I don't think that's not going to happen on Villy's own team with his 'close friend' Pollock at the helm? Probably because of the 'Storia di Zonta' ...

BAR isn't a healthy team in my perception. It has no focus, no common desire to be succesful. It's a bunch of nagging children who all seem to think they know better than the rest ... Every interview I read with mecanics and engineers was loaded with criticism on people and various aspects inside the team. An impression which the slick press talk can't hide. The Villeneuve aggression towards Zonta didn't help and brought nothing but mutual annoyance. Honda's own strong input won't help in that aspect either. A lot of nagging has been directed on the Japanese components they were obliged to use. So I don't no if or when the day will come that all noses are pointed in the right direction, but it's hardly likely that they'll get there with today's management still in charge. Until then I don't have any hope for any ambition they might have ...

Eddie Jordan has waited 1 season too long expanding his organization, but after all he did last season. Somehow he masterly managed to get the Honda's without any conflicting interest in engineering the cars and that is certainly not a disadvantage IMO. Furthermore their car seem really hot. One of the very few to incorporate the chimney's, long wheelbased, interesting frontwing and bargeboard-setup and very slick and I bet it will be very strong on especially the high-speed courses. They know the weaknesses of their gearbox now (I hope ) so I guess they will be solved by now. On top of that their drivers are among the very best of the field and - considering last year as a draw although Trulli showed some more brilliance - they must be really eager to not only beat the BAR's but eachother as well. Trulli wants a top-WDC-drive for 2002 (which he deserves) so he'll do his utmost best to beat Frentzen. Frentzen will be eager as well to stay on top of Trulli as he doen't want to be pushed out (to Jaguar for instance) by being too laid-back this year.

My guess: Trulli will beat Frentzen as well as the BAR's. If Frentzen stays motivated, Jordan will be ahead of BAR in the WCC. If Panis gets an inch of a possibility he might destroy Villeneuve but hardly likely in the BAR environment unfortunately.

[Orange]

Ok, you have a few very good points Dino, but I think your missing some credit, where it is due...
The biggest omission, is regarding Villneuve. To say that the only thing keeping Panis from leaving him in his dust is unfair treatment by the team is in my opinion, outrageous. While there is no denying that Panis is an extremely talented driver, and will be a real asset for the team, I think I'm justified in saying that JV is in a whole other league, and in a fast car, there are few drivers on the grid today, who could catch him.
BAR may be divided, and even "Jaques oriented," but keep in mind that to keep JV, theyre going to have to be 3rd (or at least "greatly improved") in the WCC, and to do that, they want Panis driving as quickly as possible. Now that JV has thrown down the gauntlet, BAR can't afford to marginalize their second driver, and they will do well next year!!!
BAR Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Billy_Hunt]

JORDAN

[Tristan]

JORDAN

[Valve Bounce]

I am surprised that the point of Jordan getting the factory Honda engine this year while they had the Mugen lst year has not been discussed at all. I can see that the factory Honda will be more powerful, and probably more reliable than the Mugen (not that Mugen wasn't good mind you). I think the point here is that Honda wants to win, they want to see a Honda man on the podium, and because of this, I can see an improvement in Jordan over last year. But I will run with Orange that BAR have Jacques, and he is a geat driver, and the presence of Olivier will only spur him on to greater efforts to win. As I have said so many times already, this will NOT be the year McLaren and Ferrari will dominate. The others have upped the ante, the money, and BMW will also be there.

[garcia]

Botsquad and Orange must of missed the two most prestigious races last year. Where did Trulli qualify last season in Monaco with a poor low powered Mugen engine. I will tell you 2nd! 2nd on the podium against the supreme Schumacher and cars such as the McClaren.

What about Belgium last season. Where did Trulli qualify with an engine which was one of the slowest and heaviest on the grid I will tell you - yes thats right second and he was doing well until he got punted off by Button.

So botsquad did Jordan suck last year keeping in mind that BAR had the works engine well I don't think so.

Jordan now on par with BAR will destroy BAR. I can spoilt little JV having many tantrums while he sees Frentzen and Trulli fly ahead of him.

[Valve Bounce]

I wasn't aware the Mugen was heavy and low on power and one of hte slowest on the grid. Where did you get this information from?

[ireshad]

Jordan

[garcia]

If you watched any broadcast of the F1 season last season Valve Bounce you would know that the Mugen Honda was seriously handicapped in terms of its power and weight - even the all knowing( hmmmm up to debate) Murray Walker acknowledged that Jordan were serverely hindered by the poor engine.

So are you saying Valve Bounce that the Mugen was as good or even better than BARs HONDA WORKS ENGINE, Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW and even Arrows engine seemed to be up to more - remember Verstappen overtaking Trulli on the fast Villeneuve track in Canada.

Really Valve Bounce, I, ireshad and probably most think you are talking utter ssshhhhh to suggest that the Mugen was up to much last season.

[Valve Bounce]

OK Garcia, you are right. What else can I say in the face of such suprior knowledge and observation powers. Unfortunately, all the GP's are broadcast very late at night here in OZ, and I was half asleep part of hte time, and desperately trying to stay awake the other half. It is just my impression that the Mugen was not that bad - I thought the Jordan had other problems.

[Tristan]

But isn't Honda supposed to be helping BAR with their chassis or something?? (help me out here) In that case I cant see Honda wanting anyone else other than BAR 1st, Jordan 2nd.

But I STILL say Jordan cause they are better from an organizatinal perspective, despite their losses in personnel.

JORDAN. I swear.

[Valve Bounce]

Honda are helping BAR out with the rear end of the chassis as well as with the engine - I don't know about the gearbox. Much of Jordans problems stemmed from unreliability with the gearbox, as well as when Jarno tangled with Bunsen. However, Jarno qualified on teh front row at Monaco and Spa, so the car itself musn't be that bad. Honda is supplying equal engines to both teams this year, and they are going by the numbers here with 4 cars so that Honda can get on the podium and possibly win several races, which is great for FACE. I always thought that Mugen was a semi works Honda effort, because I was told that Mugen is the name of Honda's son. The two teams do have quite an impressive lineup, as they have winners in three drivers, and in certain situations the fourth driver Jarno could be the fastest of the lot.