New league going to happen?

[Crash and Burn]

The car manufacturers are insisting that they are deadly serious about setting up an ‘Alternative Championship’.

"The manufacturers will, in a few days, found a company that is capable of starting and running a series of races," said DaimlerChrysler’s Jurgen Hubbert at the company’s Stuttgart headquarters yesterday.

"That would at least mean that Formula One would go until 2007,” Hubbert continued. “And starting in 2008 there will be something new."

"Maybe you cannot call it Formula One any more,” he added. “But the manufacturers will race in this premier series and from my perspective there can only be one."

The core of the manufacturers ‘unease’ with the current situation is Kirch’s stance on commercial rights. The German media giant which now owns 75% of Formula One holding company SLEC looks set to rake in a fortune, while the manufacturers, who regard themselves (quite rightly) as the key to the sport’s success feel they’re not getting their fair share of the ‘booty’.

"Maybe there will be a quiet period for some weeks, some months and then we will see what the outcome is of these discussions," said Hubbert. "We are not in a hurry but I think we should find a solution within the next year."

It’s understood the new company will have a board of directors that includes Hubbert, Jaguar’s Wolfgang Reitzle, Ferrari's Luca di Montezemolo, Renault's Patrick Faure and BMW's Burkhard Goeschel.

Meanwhile, the teams are also seeking an agreement with Kirch.

"We are very keen to have a satisfactory resolution as soon as possible,” says McLaren’s Ron Dennis. “And to achieve that will require a variation to the Concorde Agreement."

The current Concorde agreement, which is legally binding between SLEC, the FIA and the teams, runs out in 2007, after that the teams would be free to do as they please which might mean a move to the ‘Alternative Championship’.

"The primary goal of the teams is stability," Dennis continues. “If we don't have stability we can't provide the consistency that's required to maintain the television growth and the reach that we have. I don't think it's a question of pay per view or not pay per view. We live in a commercial world and it is a business.”

Dennis has total faith in Bernie Ecclestone but clearly, like the Manufacturers, has a problem with Kirch coming in at the eleventh hour and reaping the benefits.

“I have no problem with someone who has created something, who has made it happen,” said Dennis referring to Ecclestone. “I have a significant problem with a third party that has contributed zero to the future of grand prix racing taking that commercial benefit. The teams feel completely justified in asking for a greater share of the revenue stream. And the debate has always been 'What value a theatre with no actors?’”

Quite clearly this is an issue about money, control and power. Kirch has already overstretched itself with regards the money it has paid out to secure the rights for the 2002 and 2006 (soccer) World Cups.

The F1 constructors and manufacturers in association with Bernie have created a unique and highly successful product and for once all the team bosses are agreed, Ron Dennis and his mates will stand firm and almost certainly win, but at what cost?


WHAT IS GOING ON PEOPLE - PLEASE TELL!!!

[f1manoz]

Forget the new series or anything happening. The whole series will collapse if they're not careful.

The whole lot of them had better get round a negotiating table and figure this one out because we don't want repeats of the early 1980's when F1 was almost split in two.

IMO the manufacturers are in the right. And how on earth did Kirch get 75% of SLEC anyway?? Obviously some people at the hihg echelons of the sport are forgetting that without engine manufacturers, there is no racing.

[Maxmil]

We have been around and around on this one.

[Bononi]

Better watch out, they're not kidding and they're a the big guys.

[srinimax]

yes that is right. its not just some egomaniacs getting together for publicity, we're talking heads of automotive cos like jurgen hubbert, cantrella, fiore, montezemolo, reitzle and others. these guys dont waste their time with bull****.

[Tristan]

These rumours are absolute arse. There is NO WAY the manufacturers can afford to loose the F1 brand; no one will watch their rival series. It's just a lot of political posturing to get their way. Their idea is utterly un-practical.

[Vitesse]

Originally posted by Tristan
These rumours are absolute arse. There is NO WAY the manufacturers can afford to loose the F1 brand; no one will watch their rival series. It's just a lot of political posturing to get their way. Their idea is utterly un-practical.

Tris: a lot of people (including me) said similar things about IRL and CART, but the way that is going we might see CART melt down at the end of next year. I think the manufacturers will be watching Premier 1 very carefully to see how that shapes up against F1 - it would only take a bit of muscle from Ford or Daimler-Chrysler to tip the balance and leave Bernie out in the cold.

[srinimax]

yeah who's going to watch f1 if there's none of these manufacturers. first of all none of the good drivers will be there anyways. so there's not much incentive left to watch. plus you'll end up paying to watch whatever f1 there is left !

[Maxmil]

Originally posted by Tristan
These rumours are absolute arse.

But we are not really talking about rumors here. We are talking about very carefully considered - possible even scripted - statements made by senior executives of some of the largest manufacturers on the planet. One must pay attention to what they are saying, because, if there are no concessions from the other side(s), it is quite likely that they will do what they are saying they will. It is almost inconceivable that they would do nothing; otherwise, no one would ever believe them again. Including the unions.

[srinimax]

exactly. especially jurgen hubbert of mercedes. he has been quoted verbatim in the press and he hasnt denied anything reported so far. formula one runs because of people and machines, without the best merely the name aint worth anything.

[Tristan]

Oh I aprreciate that there have been these very serious looking press releases and statements but they're just BUSINESS. They're SUPPOSED to look serious and threatening. It's a bluff.

The firms know they can't live without the F1 brand. F1 differs from CART or Indy Car as it was known due to the fact it is so much so a stronger brand. The world wide audiance is there. Even if the manufacturers want to (which they don't) the sponsors wouldn't have it. The drivers wouldn't have it. The audiances wouldn't have it. why else are all these amufacturers falling over themselves to plough in money into F1 still if they all REALLy want to up and leave.

It's a bluff. An open threat. it's just a big false stir up so they can get what they want out of Bernie (who is currently holding all the cards, of course): POWER.

It's NEVER going to happen, and if it does I shall eat my.... house.

[srinimax]

well i hope too that it doesnt happen and that the primary purpose is to threaten the f1 management into doing something. but i have to disagree with you on the drivers and sponsors staying with the f1 in an event where there is an alternative series by the manufacturers. i mean for starters, schumacher m would go wherever ferrari goes and ferrari is with the manufacturers. then mercedes and bmw, their drivers would desert mclaren and williams without these guys, i would have said that hakkinen would still be with ron dennis but hakk's gone and i dont think dc is as loyal. and once the top drivers and car cos. are gone, i dont see any reason for sponsors to stay with just the "f1 name". that means nothing without its drivers and teams. the brand is powerful when compared to cart but without these guys, it just cant pull the sponsors along.

i hope you never come close to eating your house. that shall be a sad day if the teams and drivers abandon f1.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Tristan
These rumours are absolute arse. There is NO WAY the manufacturers can afford to loose the F1 brand; no one will watch their rival series. It's just a lot of political posturing to get their way. Their idea is utterly un-practical.

A name is just a name. Remember the 1st Division soccer league in England became hte Premier League, and all the 1st division teams suddenly got promoted to teh Premier League, and teh second division became the 1st division and so on down the league.
The point is, there is very little difficulty for all teh teams to suddenly pull out of F1 - they will also retain the infrastructure, and the can all it Formula GP, Formula Numero Uno, or Formula Horses' ass. It doesn't really matter what tehy call it - the same teams including drivers from F1 will be competing in it.
In fact, if things suddenly go really pear shape, what is to stop the individual teams from pulling out of F1 earlier than 2007?, and then compete under a slightly different name in another league. Look at it this way, if Ferrari decided to pull out of F1 and compete in F3000 with their top drivers, who is to say the other teams won't follow? F3000 would then, with some less than slight modifications to the regs, become the top open wheel competition.
It's all about money, control, and free to air TV being given the chance to show all the sponsors adverts.

[srinimax]

totally agree with you. plus if all this stuff happens, who would want to watch f1 with no major teams, no major drivers, AND pay for it (thats the reason why the manufacturers want to go right, coz f1 might not remain free-to-air ?)

[Tristan]

Yeah, but F1 is going to HAVE to remain free to air. It's one of the most watched sporst in the world. Bernie isn't that stupid, cause let's face it to go the ppv way would take a decision of UNBELIEVABLE dim-wittedness.

It's not going to happen. No way. All politics, that's all.

[Stephen Green]

Mosely has said today (Thursday) that he believes there will be a compromise between the carmakers and Kirch within the next two years.

[Bononi]

And after that ? What will happen ?

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by Tristan
These rumours are absolute arse. There is NO WAY the manufacturers can afford to loose the F1 brand; no one will watch their rival series. It's just a lot of political posturing to get their way. Their idea is utterly un-practical.

As others have mentioned, if Ferrari leaves F1 to go to some other series, you can be sure that the tifosi will follow. The same can be said for any other fans.

Who will run in the watered down F1 after Renault, Ford, Fiat, Mercedes, BMW etc all leave?

[Tristan]

Yes, but they're not going to. F1 will remain free to air due to the sponsors, merchandisers, common sense and for the fans (the blokes at the top aren't COMPLETELY heartless/isane). They'll continue to plough in the money. They continue to reap the dividends.

The prem league thing was due to the teams not getting enough of the TV rights. In F1 where the compitiors are huge multinational corps. they don't CARE about TV rights. They just want their cars on telly WINNING so they sell more cars. Simple.

All rumour, hearsay and posturing. No substance. At all.

[Bononi]

I would like to have your confidence, Tristan. Really I would.

[srinimax]

well all of us do hope tristan is right only we're not as confident.

[Hugh Jarce]

I may be mistaken but aren't engines fairly fundamental to and F1 car.

This may only be postering but I can remember playing footie on the rec on a number of times when someone didn't like the deal and took the ball home!

Where such major vested interests exist, anything is possible.