Brands - Druids changes

[redshoes]

Not sure where best to post this, Trackside seems as good as any.

Anyone know what's happening at Druids? Was there earlier today for the Britcar meeting and the area between the marshal's post and the mid-point of the corner was fenced off



Looks as if they are extending the barrier sideways.



Seems an odd thing to do - doesn't look like it will actually increase the run-off area that much - and odd time to do it - mid-season rather than over the winter.

[Novice]

If you look in the second picture you can see new armco being put up, this will make the gravel trap bigger.

[DWA]

Don't know the reason but was like it previous week but not so much work done. Does seem as if the tyre wall is being put further back with gravel trap being extended. Wonder whether it is being hurried through for DTM in a couple of weeks as one went off in testing earlier this year at that point.

[redshoes]

I'm assuming they will re-align the barrier between the two fire bottles and the new posts which will make the gravel trap square rather than rounded. What puzzles me is why. It would only give more run-off if you arrived at the corner on the far left side of the track, which isn't very likely. Most times the driver will make some attempt to turn in and end up towards the middle of the gravel.

I can't remember an occation when I've actually seen a car get far enough into the gravel to touch the tyre wall, at least not with any real force, so I don't see what is being gained.

Given the timing I did wonder if it was because of the DTM as well.

[Matthews Dad]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I can't remember an occation when I've actually seen a car get far enough into the gravel to touch the tyre wall, at least not with any real force, .

Few years ago now as i haven tbeen to Brands since 2003, as moved up North, one of the Porshes in the Sports saloons series smacked into the tyres at this point with eniugh force to rearrange the front end and damage fuel tank, but have to agree that this area should not see to many cars reaching it,

just wonder if they are planning to stick a snatch vechicle into a safe area with barrier and gravel around it on that side of the track as seem to remember that these have been placed into the gateway on the inside of the corner previously

[Novice]

Originally Posted by Matthews Dad

Few years ago now as i haven tbeen to Brands since 2003, as moved up North, one of the Porshes in the Sports saloons series smacked into the tyres at this point with eniugh force to rearrange the front end and damage fuel tank, but have to agree that this area should not see to many cars reaching it,

just wonder if they are planning to stick a snatch vechicle into a safe area with barrier and gravel around it on that side of the track as seem to remember that these have been placed into the gateway on the inside of the corner previously

Indeed David Lees stuck his Porsche into the armco that starts at the 2 fire bottles. Also Klaus Zwart put his Benetton, Ascari Judd, into the same spotin 2004. The angle seems completely wrong for a snatch vehicle to go in as I would expect the armco to be further down and not in line with existing armco. However I am sure all will revealed before the DTM's come to town as I am sure it is to do with them.

[Elio]

And the prize goes to...... Matthews Dad!

I haven`t actually seen any official plans to back this up, and I am not in a position of authority to say with any cast-iron certainty, but....

The word amongst the Brands anoraks (!) is that DTM are insisting on having a snatch vehicle on the OUTSIDE of the circuit so that it does not need to cross the circuit when/if it is required. As such, the snatch position at Druids entry is no good for them and they require this one to be built at Post 5......

I have to admit that I`m surprised they are not taking the gravel bed back a few yards on the entry at the same time as they extend it sideways. I know few ever reach the tyre wall but it`s still a significant braking point, and there is far more chance of meeting the wall where they are currently working than there is further round the corner (where the gravel trap is a little deeper).

It all seems terribly un-necessary in my opinion. Shades of Champ Car 2003 and all that ridiculous secondary debris fencing.

I wonder who is paying for the works. You have to assume it is MSV I suppose. It will end up a dreadful waste of money if DTM draws a poor crowd and disappears without trace for 2007 onwards.....

[Eddy V]

Well, that is the typical working way of the DTM and racedirector Roland B. Demand a lot of changes, most of it trackwise, and then don't come back anymore.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Elio

The word amongst the Brands anoraks (!) is that DTM are insisting on having a snatch vehicle on the OUTSIDE of the circuit so that it does not need to cross the circuit when/if it is required. As such, the snatch position at Druids entry is no good for them and they require this one to be built at Post 5......

Great, but what do they do with the car once they've snatched it? Unless they leave a big enough area behind the marshals' post fenced off there isn't going to be space for both snatcher and snatchee.

Agree it seems very unnecessary.

Have a feeling that DTM will draw a big crowd this year but having seen the rather poor timetable and lack of support races I wonder how many will be back next year.

[archaic gold]

It will indeed be a place of safety for any car that runs wide into Druids. Rather than leave it up against the existing tyre wall, it can be snatched and placed behind the new tyre wall. I am assured that all the Spectator Safety fencing will be replaced and upto the latest FIA Standards. Hopefully by the time of the DTM. However, the Circuit is in use 7 days a week, so work Trackside can only be completed before 9am each day. Last Tuesday we suffered tremendous storms which did not help!!

[Stephen Green]

Nigel, I've been the Observer at Post 5 many times and you would be surprised how many cars end up close to the marshals post there. Quite often they lock up under braking for the bend and simply go straight on, especially in wet conditions.

The marshals hut is also being replaced (or rebuilt) so I guess this is all part of tidying up?

The snatch vehicle, usually a JCB, is situated at the bottom of the hill to cover Paddock Hill Bend and as things are at present, it has to trundle up the hill under safety car conditions. Obviously this will mean at least 2 JCB's for DTM and other big meetings, not a bad thing in my view.

I hope that helps a little?

[Elio]

A couple of things then....

i) Is it indeed correct that the snatch vehicle itself HAS to be situated (by DTM stipulation) on the outside of the circuit, in this new refuge? AND, that the `snatched` vehicle is to be placed in this area as well if need be?

possibly leading on to.....

ii) Has anyone contemplated the scenario where more than one vehicle may need to be `snatched` during the race? Although the work is clearly unfinished at present, knowing the area extremely well I am sceptical as to how many vehicles might fit into this fairly small (?) refuge.... How unfortunate it would be if a two car incident at Druids mid-race caused a race-stoppage due to the fact that the second vehicle could only be snatched to the existing refuge on the INSIDE of Druids - which is clearly not possible as it is FAR too dangerous to cross the circuit with a JCB......

[archaic gold]

Stephen, Marshals Post are being rebuilt into Observers Boxes as the existing structures are unsuitable. In fact the rebuild at Post 5 was started before the FIA asked for the recovery lay-by to be constructed. 3 5 & 7 are the priority at present for upgrading.

[redshoes]

Stephen, I'm sure it does happen, it's just that the timing and location seemed unusual.

Most of the vehicles that go off at Paddock tend to be on the outside, the JCB at the bottom of the hill is on the inside. At some point that JCB is going to have to cross the track

Elio's second comment about lack of space was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. The temporary fence on the left of the first picture is very close to teh top of the bank. You could just about walk behind it but it was very difficult if someone was coming the other way. I'm sure it will be better once the proper fence is in place but there isn't that much room for a holding area.

[Novice]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

Stephen, Marshals Post are being rebuilt into Observers Boxes as the existing structures are unsuitable. In fact the rebuild at Post 5 was started before the FIA asked for the recovery lay-by to be constructed. 3 5 & 7 are the priority at present for upgrading.

Hooray

[Elio]

Most of the vehicles that go off at Paddock tend to be on the outside, the JCB at the bottom of the hill is on the inside. At some point that JCB is going to have to cross the track

I have a suspicion that they will do the same as they did for WTCC - ie. use concrete barriers to block-off the area around the Paddock Hill ambulance gate and fit in a JCB behind it.......

FIA rules or DTM rules, I feel it`s all rather absurd. If there is an accident requiring to be cleared then the field should be running behind a safety car. If the field are running behind a safety car there should be no safety shortcomings as concerns getting a JCB (slow moving vehicle or not) to cross the circuit.

[archaic gold]

[QUOTE=redshoes I'm sure it will be better once the proper fence is in place but there isn't that much room for a holding area.[/QUOTE]

The temporary fence is exactly as it says on the "tin",
temporary. As I stated earlier, the Circuit is in use 7 days a week, so we can not have any old hoi de poile wandering around onto a live circuit, and there has been a Race Meeting since work started (EERC) and a Bike Meeting nexy weekend. So, the fence is only a restraining measure.

The location of a Manito/JCB has yet to be decided, but probably within the "park" in the centre, as with A1GP.

[Alan Brown]

So the Manitou will have to cross the track?

[archaic gold]

A large aea is being levelled behind the 'entry' to Druids Bend. The existing Marshals Storage Hut is no longer, to facilitate the parking of a JCB/Manito?Unimog in it's place. A new Observers Box will be built on the hard standing already laid, but it's construction is still under discssion. A second Manito/JCB/Unimog will be placed within the Ambulance Gate at Paddock as CART/WTCC.
Additional debris fencing to be placed at Druids entry.

[Stephen Green]

Ok, JCB's will be at the ambulance gate at Paddock Hill Bend behind a concrete barrier, at Druids Hairpin as discussed, at the exit of the GP loop at Post 22 and at Post 9.

[TwoSheds]

Originally Posted by archaic gold

... Marshals Storage Hut ...

As in a hut to store marshals?

In the event of an incident, open door and release (the marshals) onto track?

[archaic gold]

[QUOTE=TwoSheds]As in a hut to store marshals?

In the event of an incident, open door and release (the marshals) onto track?

O'k you know what I mean, I am trying to get away from Marshal's Posts and getting them rephrased as "Observers Boxes"; which may give a little impetus to getting superior accomodation for Marshals. The old tin huts I have asked to remain, be given additional shelving and used as Marshal's Storage Hut, not for "Marshals!!", but for the use of Marshals to store there kit. Also, the new Observers Boxes will not be cluttered up with Cement, Brooms/Rakes, Fire Extinguishers etc. Onec these have been put out at the beginning of the day, the Storage Hut will be empty and available for Marshal's use!! Have I spelt that out now correctly!!!!!

[Stephen Green]

ok, back to the topic now please peeps...

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

ok, back to the topic now please peeps...

All part of the Druids Improvements!! However, as this item within Druids Improvements perhaps is really applicable to Marshals only, not Spectators; then I concede your point!!!

[James North]

looking at those pictures it looks like the spectator fence was taken down, during the modifications.

I wonder if they will put the original fence back up, or put a new one in. Either way I hope it doesn't make things to difficult for public side photography.