Historics awesome stuff

[Woody75]

After attending the v8 round at Barbagallo two weeks ago and seeing the Historics action first hand it was great too see the great coverage they received on ten today.

The camaros of Mason and Stubber were awesome to watch with plenty of sideways action

thoughts???

[single keel]

Agreed. I love watching the old touring cars. At some of the historic meetings they get huge grids of them, magic to watch.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Woody75
After attending the v8 round at Barbagallo two weeks ago and seeing the Historics action first hand it was great too see the great coverage they received on ten today.

The camaros of Mason and Stubber were awesome to watch with plenty of sideways action

thoughts???

Yep.....10 gave a quick flash of the first race, then preceded to play follow the leader just as they do in the "main game" (Supercars). The whole point of Historics is to generally show a variety of period vehicles and how it was back then (pre-political correctness and parity)etc. 10 showed only a couple of shots of the also-rans when the leaders swooped on them.

I really don't like this style of presentation. By all means, keep us informed of the unfolding race postions but show the battles going on mid and rear field as well. Always come back to the leaders for the finish.

Whats hard about that??

[retro]

On the subject of historics I heard that the guy in QLD (Bowden I think) has purchased the Bartlett 9 Comaro and is in the process of restoring it. Kevin Bartlet himself is in charge of the restoration.
There is a possibility it could be run in historics when finished by Bartlet. I would love to see that thing go around again.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I too thoroughly enjoyed the Historic Touring Cars from WA. Aside from Konica V8s, i don't usually get much enjoyment from "Trackside", but it was great to see one of Australia's best classes on TV.

Mick has a point though, one of the best things about Historic Touring Cars is the variety and the battles all the way down the order, it would have been nice to see a bit more of that, to really show just how good the class is.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally posted by retro
On the subject of historics I heard that the guy in QLD (Bowden I think) has purchased the Bartlett 9 Comaro and is in the process of restoring it. Kevin Bartlet himself is in charge of the restoration.
There is a possibility it could be run in historics when finished by Bartlet. I would love to see that thing go around again.

Retro, Mr Bowden bought the Channel 6 Camaro sometime ago and KB has been working on it for quite a while. I believe they intend entering the car for the Shannon's Qld Historic racing festival at QR on July 23-25. There are expected to be at least a dozen Group C cars and about 60 Group N cars.

[Conrod Kieron]

All we need now is for the old Group C cars to join the V8 supercar circus. I'm sure this class would be a major crowd pleaser, Johnson could tow his Greens Tuf or Tru Blue Falc to each round.

Saw Jansons old A9X at Wanneroo the other week too, nice resto and Perkins was quite interested in it!

[johnh875]

Then throw away the V8SC's lol... Sorry couldn't resist.

[retro]

Bartlett said they *home* made a lot of aluminium nuts and bolts for the Camaro to save weight and it also ran fiberglass springs.

[pete55]

The trouble is historic racers in the future such as the current V8 Supercar class won't be very strong because of the updating chassis' from one model to the next. The two make nature of the class won't exactly be conductive of interest or good racing.

[amaroo]

Great racing, great to see some of the older generation cars out and running, understeer, oversteer it all happens. The problem with this class (like all forms of motorsport) is that once people get into it the " development bug " takes over and you have XU1 Toranas with engines producing 100 more horespower (FPR & XU1 motors..worth considering) than they did in the years gone by at a reported cost exceeding 25K ....... Its big coin to run in what IMO should be a fun class of racing, its a great spectacle lets hope its not lost to the front runners with more to spend.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Conrod Kieron
All we need now is for the old Group C cars to join the V8 supercar circus. I'm sure this class would be a major crowd pleaser, Johnson could tow his Greens Tuf or Tru Blue Falc to each round.

Saw Jansons old A9X at Wanneroo the other week too, nice resto and Perkins was quite interested in it!

[Retro, Mr Bowden bought the Channel 6 Camaro sometime ago and KB has been working on it for quite a while.

Dave you trying to be a comedian? It would be a hoot if they did make the Ch 9 dots into a 6 though]

I am only going on what I saw at the 19-20 June 2004 medium sized meet at Eastern Creek, where we saw the following Grp C and invited Group A:

Escort RS2000,
Commodore VH (X2),
Falcon XD,
Torana L34,
Alfa GTV6,
Torana A9X

Bimmer M3,
Commodore VK,
Commodore 1988,
Commodore VL,
Nissan Skyline (X2)
Starion,
Corolla,
Sierra RS500 (no show)

These two groups were fairly processional, the Nissans looked like they were being nursed and the Holc VL swept all before it (sweet sounding and well driven). A good show, but not quite ready to showcase at so called premier touring car events just yet IMHO

[retro]

I only heard about the Camaro last week - apparently I need to get Aust Muscle Car magazine.

[Conrod Kieron]

The problem with the current Group C/Invited Group A is the rules stipulate it needs to be an original Group C/A machine, these things are already collectors items.

To move it into the V8SC Support class, it needs to be opened up to replicas like Historics.

IIRC AMC had a brief article on Big Revs Camaro, but nothing significant. From memory its going through a resto.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally posted by amaroo
The problem with this class (like all forms of motorsport) is that once people get into it the " development bug " takes over and you have XU1 Toranas with engines producing 100 more horespower than they did in the years gone by at a reported cost exceeding 25K ....... Its big coin to run in what IMO should be a fun class of racing, its a great spectacle lets hope its not lost to the front runners with more to spend.

This is already happening and has been for some time. When my Datsun 1600 made it's debut, it owed me about 5 grand and I was in the same class as Bob Pearson's BDA Escort which was reputed to have cost about 130 grand. Obviously, when the lights went green, I didn't see which way he went, but the beauty of the class is that there are many people at every level and the guys with 100 grand cars put on a great show dicing with each other, the 10 and 20 grand cars have a great battle in the mid field and the 5 grand specials have some great dices at the back. We all find our own level and everybody has a good time.

The other advantage of this class is that there are different tpes and levels that you can compete at. The big dollar guys are mostly sticking to the National series and this is letting the medium budget guys run at the front at State level.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally posted by Conrod Kieron
The problem with the current Group C/Invited Group A is the rules stipulate it needs to be an original Group C/A machine, these things are already collectors items.

To move it into the V8SC Support class, it needs to be opened up to replicas like Historics.

Kieron, i've been saying the same thing for ages, while ever Group C is restricted to genuine cars, they will never get decent fields.

The problem with opening it up to replicas is that people with genuine cars don't want to race against replicas, for a number of reasons. The obvious one being that people with genuine cars are going to drive rather more carefully and not be so aggressive in trafic.

[Hybrid]

Historics have there problems to. Our Jenson CV8 was declined - reason- to powerful.

[DAVID PATERSON]

What class were you hoping to run it in?

[Hybrid]

Not sure David but I will find out. In the Targa we were in the Shannons classic 3c---. The meeting we were excluded from was at Oran Park around two months ago. The car has been parked and possibly won't move until next years Targa.

[DAVID PATERSON]

The classes at Targa are nothing to do with the Historic Commision and won't be found in a CAMS manual.

If you wish to enter your car in Historic racing, you will need a historic logbook. Aside from Groups N & S, you will need a car with a genuine racing history. If your Jensen is a Production Sports Car built prior to 1974, then you should be eligible for Group S. I recommend talking to the HSRCA, try www.hsrca.org.au they will teel you how to go about getting a historic logbook.

[David Towe]

Back to the Group A/C for a moment, there is no way I would be interested in running my ex JPS M3 against replicas, I'd be risking too much. As some of you will already know I used to run my old ex Longhurst BMW 323 Group A car in the NSW sports sedan championship with "cheaper" cars, but the M3 is worth a whole lot more. I worry about damaging it but still feel that a good show can be put on without the need to bend panels.

As far as the Eastern Creek meeting being processional I can only speak from what I saw. I qualified 11th then went from 11th to 3rd in the first race (8 places gained) then in the next race started 3rd got to 2nd briefly dropped to 3rd then got back to finish 2nd. And in the last race dropped to 3rd briefly, got to 2nd after 2 laps, held off the Commodore of Gary Collins until the last corner where fuel surge set in and Collins got me just before the line.
We gave racing room during all the passes but still made people work for their opportunity to pass.

The David Holc ex Bartlett/Ingall GIO Commodore has some legality questions concerning the engine configuration, which if found to be outside the rules (I don't know if it is) would bring him back to the rest of the field when corrected.

The problem with letting replicas in is that they stand to lose very little if they decide to push through a gap that isn't quite there or if they screw up. We with the genuine cars stand to lose a lot more. Perhaps if the drivers of replica cars were made to pay the full repair bills for damaging a genuine car we might see some cleaner racing and be more inclined to letting replica cars into the field.
It does raise an interesting question though, does it take panel rubbing to make racing intersting?

[Woody75]

I see at the meeting at EC only one Sierra entered.

how many of the sierras raced in the late 80s to early 90s are still around??

[racer69]

There would probably be a fair few, what state they are in?

Am i the only one thinking Group N has kind of lost its way. The Camaro's running away at Wanneroo were certainly spectacular, but is this really representitve of what was envisaged when the class started back in 1981, it seems much more geared towards the bigger cars from the Improved Touring era these days.

How about they split it, Nb in one race, Nc in another.

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by Conrod Kieron
All we need now is for the old Group C cars to join the V8 supercar circus. I'm sure this class would be a major crowd pleaser, Johnson could tow his Greens Tuf or Tru Blue Falc to each round.

Saw Jansons old A9X at Wanneroo the other week too, nice resto and Perkins was quite interested in it!

Dick treats his cars as museum pieces. They won't be coming out anytimes soon, and they don't want to further dilute team focus. That and the big Queensland historic meet, now only 2.5 weeks away, is the same weekend as Winton V8 round.

Last I heard the Camaro won't be ready in time. There will be a new Dick Johnson XC in evidence, and unlike the one already seen running around, this one is genuine Bryan Byrt Ford (Dicks team at the time) constructed.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Woody75
I see at the meeting at EC only one Sierra entered.

Entered YES, Start Did Not