Pook briefly talks about V10s and Gas

[The Snout]

From Autoweek :


CART news briefs: With or without Ford; More reasons for gas

CART CEO Chris Pook says it will be several months before CART decides whether to accept Ford racing boss Dan Davis’ offer to extend Ford-Cosworth’s exclusive engine supply agreement beyond 2004. Nonetheless, it sounds as if Pook already knows what he wants to do.

“There has not been a response to [Ford] and there probably won’t be, I’d say, much before July,” he told AutoWeek. “We’d like two, at a minimum, or three or four manufacturers in our circuit.”

And while Pook concedes the spec-engine contract is as good for CART as it is for Cosworth, he says the starting point for a 2005 engine formula remains what it was when CART signed its exclusive two-year deal with Ford: a gasoline-powered V10.

“We have to align ourselves more and more with the automobile industry as it exists today,” he said. “We are going to put starters in the cars. Why? You might be watching on television and think, ‘What, that’s a car? What do you mean, it can’t even start.’ We need to bridge that gap to real, usable technology.

“A V10 is fairly sophisticated, and you’ll see that the world’s manufacturers are moving toward V10s. At the Detroit [auto show], Ford made a big issue about building a V10. You’ve got Volkswagen making V10s, and others are coming out.”

Implicit, if not spoken, is another obvious advantage with a V10: If the seven manufacturers building V10s for Formula One can get more mileage from their huge investment there, with minimal incremental costs to detune the engines and make them last longer, then CART might look like a much more attractive business proposition. Ultimately, CART’s decision—stick with Ford beyond 2004 or start with a new engine formula—will likely depend on how much interest it gets from other manufacturers, and how quickly.

More reasons for gas
So why would CART want to ditch methanol—the traditional fuel of big-league American open-wheel racing—in favor of gasoline? It’s a business decision more than a technological one, according to Pook.

“We’ll go to gasoline for two reasons,” he said. “No. 1, that’s a sensible thing to do, because that’s what real cars run on. Yes, there are diesels, but we’re not ready to go to diesels yet. And No. 2, the money from oil companies now is not in lubricants, as it once was. It’s in gas, and we want gasoline companies in our series, because when they come, they bring their retail stores with them, and when they bring their stores, then retail products like potato chips and Pepsi-Cola and all the other stuff you see in the stores can come too.

“When we sat down to talk to Shell and Chevron, we were told, ‘We have no gasoline money in this series whatsoever. That’s lubricant money. When you have a gasoline product in your series that we can sell to customers, come back and talk to us.’”

[veeten]

Hmmmm... just what I've been saying a few weeks back, about the participation of both auto manufacturers & Petroleum companies. So nice to be on-the-beam with things...


oh btw, it'll be V-10s. Certainly looks, sounds, and...(sniff...sniff) smells like it, doesn't it Lee.

[kmchow]

Hmmm, I can go even farther back. CART should have hooked up and promoted the short lived NATCC even more!!! Imagine Ford/Honda/Toyota/GM/MB all racing their respective 4 door sedans in the series!!

[Snrub]

Starters are a great idea, they should have been in already. 15 lbs isn't a big deal. If Pook can get more sponsors and manufacturers, then gas is the only way to go. I still think methanol is the better fuel for CART, but it's not a big deal.

I still don't get the case for the n/a V10s.

I don't know anything about the NATCC, but if we're talking production vehicles, GM and Ford would have their asses handed to them. Even the 3.8L blown Grand Prix GTP would be no match for a 3.0L Accord.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by veeten
Hmmmm... just what I've been saying a few weeks back, about the participation of both auto manufacturers & Petroleum companies. So nice to be on-the-beam with things...


oh btw, it'll be V-10s. Certainly looks, sounds, and...(sniff...sniff) smells like it, doesn't it Lee.

Smells like high-test, yup. I'll not concede the rest.

[JamesJimmy]

Well, I've been as anti gasoline and anti V10 as anyone, but he makes some solid points. I guess CART has their reasons. I'd still rather see turbos, if for no other reason than to keep CART distinct from F1, but I guess if V10's will really be better for the series, so be it. I also agree with onboard starters and such. However, I don't think relating CART to production cars should be TOO big of a deal. If people wanted production cars, they wouldn't be watching open wheel. But it wouldn't hurt to make it a little more relevent, I suppose.

[veeten]

The NATCC when it first debued in the early 90's had one major supporter, Chrysler and most importantly their Dodge division with the Stratus chassis. For the first two seasons it was the best car out there, with David Donohue as lead driver for their team. But there was very little marketing of the series, and only a couple of races were actually broadcasted. Honda was the only manufacturer that gave some competition, but by that time it was too late. If only it was properly handled, we could've had a series that would rival the BTCC.

Oh well...

[racer69]

The Tasman Honda driven by Neil Crompton was a private entry wasn't it.

Pook seems to think it is very important to have the cars more in line with what the manufacturers use in their production vehicles.

[alfasud]

Starter motors yes, gasoline - fine, but "manufacturers are moving toward V10s"?

Which cars are these (name models please)? 10 minutes from where I am in Auckland, are the suburbs of Newmarket-Greenlane. That's where all the cars sales places are and I can view new Ford, GM, Audi, BMW, Merc, Ferrari, Maserati.... all with V8's, some with V6, V12's etc but not many V10 (a couple of Viper maybe?).

Maybe if someone is giving the engines away, but why elect to use F1 cast offs?

[macdaddy]

JamesJimmy echoes my thoughts when he says, "If people wanted production cars, they wouldn't be watching open wheel." I think putting starters onboard is a great idea, but not for the reasons Pook cites. Can't say as I've ever watched a race with anyone who said "What, that’s a car? What do you mean, it can’t even start"

I understand what Pook wants to accomplish here, I just hope that he's very careful not to step on Ford's toes. They've been his biggest ally.

[The Snout]

Starter motors are great even if Pooks reasons are a bit funny.
My interest is how is this hinted (by the journo anyway) crossover F1 going to play out, considering he makes it sound like Pook could be poaching on Bernie's turf. Interesting times indeed.

[mac]

Open-wheel racing has absolutely nothing to do with what people buy off the floor. If you want to watch production cars, go and watch production cars. I want to watch racing cars.

[indycool]

Overall marketing objectives aside, I find moving from methanol to gas in open-wheel cars a safety setback which we learned about long ago. How do I look at it if I'm the fire marshal in St. Pete?

And V-10s? No specs are out. No manufacturers are even talking about committing. Pook has said he won't respond to Ford's extension program until July. At that point, there's 1 1/2 years till what is supposed to be the "magic" '05.

[Snrub]

I'm willing to compromise on the fuel, the number of cylinders (or rotors ), the displacement up to 4.0L, but the turbos are essential. Take a F1 V10, dumb it down and turbo it? Fine. I don't think that's the best way to go, but the point is the turbo is needed.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by veeten
The NATCC when it first debuted in the early 90's had one major supporter, Chrysler and most importantly their Dodge division with the Stratus chassis. Honda was the only manufacturer that gave some competition, but by that time it was too late.

If the '98 season took place as planned, it would have had Toyota as a factory involved.

But there was very little marketing of the series, and only a couple of races were actually broadcasted.

That was probably the factor that killed the series.

If only it was properly handled, we could've had a series that would rival the BTCC.

The way I saw it, CART should have used the NATCC as an "opening act". Use it to draw the crowds. Market CART and NATCC as a progression from street car(manufacturers should love it) to half race/street (NATCC) to all race (CART). And the fact that 2 or more CART teams had satellite NATCC teams was cool. By falling for a NATCC team, perhaps fans would follow the team to CART.

[kmchow]

I think moving to V10s is a smart idea to attract the existing F1 manufacturers. However, could going V10 deter new manufacturers??

[The Snout]

Honda, Toyota and Ford could have had Supertouring teams since they all ready had equipment, just import it and race. Opening act, good idea, display the road hardware prior to the hardcore racing technology. But a past dream now though.

[GP Racer]

Got to go with gasoline. It would open up a whole new wave of sponsorships and bring in new advertising money thats badly needed. It would also be a new area that CART could market itself through, such as hats, shirts, posters, and promo's at say your Mobile or BP stations.

Besides, how cool would a CART race car look in Sunoco blue and gold?!

[The Snout]

We've been here before but if F1 has a handle on fuel safety then no reason Cart can't follow. There's 9 years of modern F1 refueling to call upon as an example of how safe it can be. The pros outweight the cons.

[Lee Janotta]

Hey, I still say screw refuelling altogether. Guys in the pits will be able to dress like mechanics instead of astronauts, and we'll see _real_ competition for the fastest pitstop, with blindingly quick 4-tire changes! It was always exciting to watch in F1, there's no real benefit to allowing refuelling!

[macdaddy]

Lee, your arguments to ban refuelling are good ones, but you've yet to convince me.

So much talk about how the oil sponsorship will be coming through the woodwork once the switch is made to gasoline. But isn't there one "official" fuel supplier to all of the teams? Or will that also be changed, so as to allow teams and/or manufacturers to sign contracts with specific fuel suppliers? Say Rahal's Ford will be running Shell while Haberfeld's Mercedes will be on Sunoco?

[mp356a]

Originally posted by kmchow
.........
The way I saw it, CART should have used the NATCC as an "opening act". Use it to draw the crowds. Market CART and NATCC as a progression from street car(manufacturers should love it) to half race/street (NATCC) to all race (CART). And the fact that 2 or more CART teams had satellite NATCC teams was cool. By falling for a NATCC team, perhaps fans would follow the team to CART.

Now yer gettin' near Utopia!

Mike

[Bizzo5000]

Never once have I looked at champ car and said, "Damn, that looks like my car, if only it had a starter."

Starters are a great idea, it will cut down on at least a couple of yellows per race from people loosing the spark after a spin.

I can't wait for the day that I walk into my Exxon and see a champ car driver promoted instead of the rednex they do now(untill I go back and get a Pepsi or a Coke).

[BootsOntheSide]

I think maybe there should be a compromise - use turbo engines running on gas. The safety gap between gas and methanol is no longer there, and its only really tradition in favour of methanol. I'd really rpefer to have classic 2.65 litre turbos, the type of engines CART thrived on, and which have produced such action. However, it does come down to manufacturer involvement - the series can't indefiantely survive on leess than 3 manufacturers.

[Snrub]

I don't think many people think champ cars have anything in common with street vehicles, but when a driver stalls the car it looks quiet lame. For the sake of 15lbs, it would seem intelligent to have starters.

Anyone know how light the flywheels are? I'm guessing 3lbs.

Clearly I'm in favour of the current engine formula, but something has to be done to keep the series going and get sponsorship happening. The engine formula is absolutely critical to the future of the series.