Formula 3 of 1971-73 vintage

[Henrik Pedersen]

Where are they ?
The formula 3 cars of 1971 to 73.

I was attending the HSCC race at the Spa 6-hours weekend, and I was the only formula 3 car, of that period, present.

I think its a wonderfull formula. It normaly had Lotus TC or Renault with restrictorbox. And this made them very costsaving, compared with the "screamers".

Is most of the cars converted to 2 ltr. specification?

If there are somebody outthere with a 1971-73 formula 3 car, who also would like to race with cars from what period. Step forward in this thread.

[rogerwills]

I seem to remember a whole race of these at the Paul Historic this year - seems a French series runs a few races for them.

[Henrik Pedersen]

Yes, there is a French serie, for formula 3 cars: 1000 ccm."screamers", 1600 ccm. with restrictor, 2 ltr.cars, plus the Formula Renault cars.
Its all under the F3Classic banner, and its run only on French tracks.

An European serie for F3 cars 1964 to 1973 would be welcome, because those cars are similar, compared to the 2 ltr.

[James Murray]

Think the French 1000cc effort is run separately to the 2000cc and aren't linked.

There is a class in HSCC Historic F3 for your type of car Henrik, but its poorly supported.

I dont think it a goer mixing your type of car and the 1000cc cars as your slicks and wings and they're treaded tyres and no wings.

[Henrik Pedersen]

Didn´t the 1000cc have wings in the late sixties?
The March 703, Lotus 59 and 69 did have wings.

I just think that they are better to run against than a Formula Junior or a Formula 3 or 2 car from late seventies.

[Alan Morgan]

The Classic F3 race at Donington last weekend had three 1600 F3s - a Mallock, Albert Clements' beautiful "Gold Leaf" Lotus 69 and a Palliser. You're quite right in saying that the later 1 Litre F3 cars sometimes chose to run wings in period, Henrik.


Picture from www.f3history.co.uk

The 1 Litre cars run without wings in the UK because they compete in the HSCC Classic Racing Cars series, where wings and slicks are banned.

I agree, it would be nice to see a series for earlier F3 cars.

[Andrew Kitson]

Henrik have you seen this thread?
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26347

[Henrik Pedersen]

Just seen it.
A great thead, Andrew, and I just posted a picture.

Is there a reason they HSCC don´t allow wings. They are historical correct.

I see it as a possibility to get a bigger entry in the F3 race, to allow them to race together.

[James Murray]

HSCC Classic Racing Cars cut off date is end of 1970 so the 1600cc f3 cars arent eligible anyway.

My point was about 1000cc f3 not having wings was that the current series rules dont permit wings as they only started using them in period towards the very end of the formula.

The 1600cc f3 cars have a class in HSCC Classic F3 as previously mentioned and maybe in Derek Bell trophy but don't quote me on that. I think the German Open allows them also.

There arent enough cars running to merit a series for them on their own which is a shame as probably a cost effective formula for nice cars.

[Henrik Pedersen]

Well. I will just have to be patient and wait for some more cars to turn up.

Derek Bell trophy isn´t really an alternative. I don´t like to run with F2 cars that are so blistering fast, I would only have time to look in my mirrors, not race.

[Henrik Pedersen]

Heres a photo of Derek Lawrence in my Palliser during the F 3 race at The Race of Champions at Brand Hatch in 1971.
It can be clearly seen that they drove on treaded tyres, and no wings on this one.

[Chris Sharples]

Last weekend there was a round of the BP Ultimate Classic F3 championship at Donington Park. This was for pre 81 2 litre cars but with a class for the earlier 1600 cc cars. There were three of these on the grid; a Lotus 69 in Gold Leaf colours, a Palliser WDF3 and the ex-works Mallock Mk11b. Previously a Dastle and BT38 have made an appearance. The organisers of CF3 believe there will be more 1600cc cars coming out in 2009.
Their big meeting is the Superprix at Brands Hatch. This year they had a continental contingent (French) running with them.

[Henrik Pedersen]

I hope the grids will be bigger in 2009.

I hear the repeating rumour at Spa, that somebody is thinking of having F3 1971-73 in the next Monaco Historic instead of FJ.
I don´t know if there are any substance in it, but it would be a wonderfull thing if that happened.

The great thing about the F3, 1971-73 class, is that it is very difficult/almost impossible to do an engine that is not legal, due to the restrictorbox.

For the record: A Palliser WDF3 is not born as a F3 car, its a FF car that had been converted to F3, the F behind WD, says that.

[James Murray]

I think its the later predominantly Toyota powered 2000cc cars that have got the nod for Monaco Henrik.

Interesting what you say about Pallisers. I have owned 2 Palliser WDF3's which were both Formula Fords. Both had chassis plates, the first one read WDF3/2 and the second one read WDF3-2. The first car came from Germany and had gone to Denmark originally, from what I was told. The second car had been in UK all its life!!

[John Robinson]

BARC used to run a series for these cars, but it merged with the HSCC F3 series due to lack of support.

Alan - if you are allowing air cooled Super Vees in the Historic FF2000 series as an invitation class, why not allow the 1600cc F3s in as well? They are probably a better match with FF2000s than they are with 2000cc F3 cars.

[Henrik Pedersen]

I wouldn´t know if Toyata powered cars are in for that event. It just a rumour I have heard many times now. Perhaps it just wishfull thinking??

The Palliser I have has the chassisplate: WD3/2-1, the history is known from day 1. Derek Lawrence in 1971, and Jac.Nelleman in 72.

On the Palliser website there has been some writing on the subject.
An examble is the formula B cars in USA, they carry WDB on their chassisplates.

To ID the chassisplate is fairly easy, on mine its: W is Wimhurst, D is Dipley, 3 is formula 3, 2 is for second series of formula 3 cars (Palliser started formula 3 production in 1970), and 1 is the first chassis of that serie.
There are 2 known formula 3 cars from 1971

I have seen some Palliser "Formula 3" cars for sale, that has a chassisplate with WDF, so they are FF that is converted to F3.
I really don´t think it matters, because it is the same chassis.

Your Palliser could be ex.: Thorkild Thyrring car

[Marcus Mussa]

At Monaco 2010 there should be a class for the 71-73 cars and another for the 2 litre cars - what is not yet certain is the cut off date for the latter - the logic would be for 1977 (like the F1 cars). I think if the race is announced soon a lot of the earlier cars will come out of the wood-work.
Not sure what race it will replace however - the FJ lobby is strong!
It would be interesting to do a Poll - which race should be replaced by F3 - Sports cars pre-52, pre-war, front engine GP (the smallest grid in 2008), or FJ

[Steve Wilkinson]

Quiet a few of the UK cars ended up in speed events (hillclimbs & sprints).

Above: Fyrth Crosse in the ex-Mike Wilds/David Franklin etc Ensign taken at Shelsley Walsh back in August this year.

[Henrik Pedersen]

This is indeed very good news, Marcus.

I am going to book a hotel now, and hope for an invitation.

[Racesport]

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

At Monaco 2010 there should be a class for the 71-73 cars and another for the 2 litre cars - what is not yet certain is the cut off date for the latter - the logic would be for 1977 (like the F1 cars). I think if the race is announced soon a lot of the earlier cars will come out of the wood-work.
Not sure what race it will replace however - the FJ lobby is strong!
It would be interesting to do a Poll - which race should be replaced by F3 - Sports cars pre-52, pre-war, front engine GP (the smallest grid in 2008), or FJ

Hi Marcus!

here is my Ensign LNF3, year 1972!

I will race next season and I hope at Monaco 2010!

Kind regards.

Carlo

[Henrik Pedersen]

It´s a nice car you have.

I will start 2009 off, with Jim Clark Revival at Hochenheim, hope to see you there.

[Racesport]

Thank you Henrik!
I hope to race with you at Jim Clark Revival with the Ensign if there will be a grid for historic F3!
Kind regards.
Carlo

[Marcus Mussa]

You have a lovely car Carlo! Do you know its history?
Yes - I found the answer in the chassis section!

[Racesport]

Hi Marcus,

yes, this is the history of the car:

1972-74 John Littler (formula three internationals races)
1974 Brian Robinson
1974-75 Bob Howlings
1975-79 Cliff Sayer
1979-85 Bob Berridge
1985-92 Malcom Carter (Classic F3 winner on 1988)
1992 Barrie Maskell
From 1992 Richard Dawson (Classic F3 events)
Then was owned but not raced in tha last years by R. A. Yarwood, Len Selby and now I will put back on track!
Kind regards.
Carlo

[Alan Morgan]

We shared a pit garage at Nuerburgring this weekend with two Ensign F3 cars that race in the German HRA series, and there is at least one other Ensign in Germany. It's nice to know that so many of them still exist - they were a very neat little car.