Audi R15 , What could it be ?

[The Badger]

I thought this might make for an interesting discussion .

Herr Ulrich has said that Audi are not going down the Hybrid route , at least not yet anyway .

Nor is it clear if the new R15 is an open topper or a coupe ?

Will they stick with the diesel route ?

Could they go back to petrol and run the R8 engine ?

[zac510]

There's a bit of discussion already in here:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109508

[gwyllion]

Audi has to consider 3 important factors:

• tyre changes will take longer: This reduces the advantage of an open car, because you have a bit more time during a pilot change.
• smaller rear wing (-40 cm) + bigger gurney: This makes the aerodynamics of the car even more important. Coupes have a small advantage in this area.
• bigger restrictors for diesel: Before the annoucement of the new rules, Peugeot already suggested they might have to go to smaller engine (e.g., V10). A smaller diesel engine also helps improve the weight distribution.

My resulting guess: R15 = coupe with 5.0 V10 TDI.

[zac510]

Good points gwyllion. I hadn't heard the smaller engine rumour before.

[Aslak Vind]

Closed coupe.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Audi has to consider 3 important factors:

• tyre changes will take longer: This reduces the advantage of an open car, because you have a bit more time during a pilot change.
• smaller rear wing (-40 cm) + bigger gurney: This makes the aerodynamics of the car even more important. Coupes have a small advantage in this area.
• bigger restrictors for diesel: Before the annoucement of the new rules, Peugeot already suggested they might have to go to smaller engine (e.g., V10). A smaller diesel engine also helps improve the weight distribution.

My resulting guess: R15 = coupe with 5.0 V10 TDI.

1. pilot change - not a big deal. Modern coupes and barchettas are equal in this moment
2. I've heard open barchettas has downforce advantage, cause they have lower bodyshell, without cabin
3. It's not so simple - to cut 2 cylindres from engine
So, I hope, it will be coupe with V10TDI
Coupes look well, and there is some fashion for it. Smaller engine give more place for future hybrid drive

[The Badger]

Im kinda thinking about a Petrol Coupe .

Barchetta is a quicker driver change ?

Ive heard the coupe has a slight aero advantage ?

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by Valenok

1. pilot change - not a big deal. Modern coupes and barchettas are equal in this moment
2. I've heard open barchettas has downforce advantage, cause they have lower bodyshell, without cabin
3. It's not so simple - to cut 2 cylindres from engine
So, I hope, it will be coupe with V10TDI
Coupes look well, and there is some fashion for it. Smaller engine give more place for future hybrid drive

1. Not so. The driver changes are quicker for the open topped prototypes when compared to the new coupes.
2. Coupes in general have better aero efficiency which leads to more down force at the rear wing.
3. Its real easy to cut 2 cylinders from almost any engine... with a cutting torch...

[yamato]

That all seems to make sense. The R10 has almays been a handling beast in the slower corners due to the longer wheelbase. You also have to figure that IF diesel remains a priority for Audi,... that the 2011 regs would reduce the diesel displacement to a number much smaller than today (maybe in the area of 4.0L or so). The only area that i might disagree is the coupe bit. The changes to the wing are significant. This may be enough to sway Audi in the direction of staying with the open topped chassis. I don't know if this picture is real or not, but if so, tha wing is TINY! (if real, it also shows how quickly Audi has taken to the evaluation of the new rules - brilliant!)




edit: sorry, after closer inspection, this picture is indeed a fake!

[yamato]

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Valenok

1. pilot change - not a big deal. Modern coupes and barchettas are equal in this moment
2. I've heard open barchettas has downforce advantage, cause they have lower bodyshell, without cabin
3. It's not so simple - to cut 2 cylindres from engine
So, I hope, it will be coupe with V10TDI
Coupes look well, and there is some fashion for it. Smaller engine give more place for future hybrid drive

In regards to #3, that's exactly what BMW's done with the new M3. They just made a V8 version of the M5's V10.

[LeMans.pt]

I couldn't confirm if it was a true or not, but someone on the "Salon Arnage" forum on endurance-info.com, on September 19, said that the French sports newspaper L'equipe published that the new Audi will be called R12 and it would be powered by a V8 4.4L essence.

The new LMP would début on the 12 Hours of Sebring if in this few months they achieve to complete it. If not, and if they think that with the new rules the R10 isn't competitive enough, Audi would stop competing during 2009, and come back in 2010.

Maybe one of our French friends here can confirm this is real, or just a newspaper rumour.

someone?

[Hugewally]

They've already got an R10.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

They've already got an R10.

... sorry... R12

[bodgit]

I think it'll be a closed coupe with a deisel version of the R8(roadcar) enigine, and a hybrid one will run alongside a normal one .

[cjent]

Coupe. Still diesel????????????????? Maybe a Lambo type V10 for lighter weight and probably a shorter wheelbase.

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

I couldn't confirm if it was a true or not, but someone on the "Salon Arnage" forum on endurance-info.com, on September 19, said that the French sports newspaper L'equipe published that the new Audi will be called R12 and it would be powered by a V8 4.4L essence.

The new LMP would début on the 12 Hours of Sebring if in this few months they achieve to complete it. If not, and if they think that with the new rules the R10 isn't competitive enough, Audi would stop competing during 2009, and come back in 2010.

Maybe one of our French friends here can confirm this is real, or just a newspaper rumour.

someone?

Let us get the vehicle codes right:

R8 (Le Mans car)
R9 (R8 roadcar)
R10 (Diesel Le Mans car)
R11 (2004 DTM A4))
R12 (2005 DTM A4)
R13 (2006 DTM A4)
R13Plus (2007 DTM A4)
R14 (2008 DTM A4)
R15 (Alleged new Le Mans car)

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by bodgit

I think it'll be a closed coupe with a deisel version of the R8(roadcar) enigine

The Audi R8 roadcar does not have a diesel engine?

[ss_collins]

Add to that list R16 - GT3 R8.

I know beyond reasonable doubt its called the R15, I'm pretty certain its a roadster not a coupe, I do not know if its a diesel or a petrol but I suspect it may be a petrol.

[gwyllion]

On http://www.sportscarpros.com/cottonb...ry/default.htm Andrew Cotton suggests that diesels will still have a power advantage next year:

The ACO would have to drastically cut the performance, to the point where, argue both Audi and Peugeot, they would not be at all competitive against a factory-prepared gasoline car. A 15% cut in air restrictor size would have forced Audi to switch to petrol (perhaps with the ageless 3.6 litre V8 taken from the R8), while Peugeot would have to switch to…oh, no back up plan.

...

Next year, the Peugeot and Audi teams will have to regroup. They will have smaller air restrictors by 10 per cent (just within the limit at which Peugeot would have closed its doors), and reduced boost pressure, curbing performance by an estimated 10.5%.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The Audi R8 roadcar does not have a diesel engine?

Not quite yet! The concept/proto was introduced at the NAAS in Detoit in Jan. of this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8


L.P.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Not quite yet! The concept/proto was introduced at the NAAS in Detoit in Jan. of this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8

Yes I know but this car will not go into production. And anyway that engine is unusable for racing: 6.0 liter (too big) and 60 degree V angle (too high cfg).

[P38 in workshop]

Small correction for post 17,the R9 designation was used for the 1999 closed LMP initially.As for the new car,the technical challenge will have to be a new one and perhaps a smaller car with less weight would implant the notion in the minds of the general public that Audi can build cars that achieve good performance because of intelligent use of materials.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Let us get the vehicle codes right:

R8 (Le Mans car)
R9 (R8 roadcar)
R10 (Diesel Le Mans car)
R11 (2004 DTM A4))
R12 (2005 DTM A4)
R13 (2006 DTM A4)
R13Plus (2007 DTM A4)
R14 (2008 DTM A4)
R15 (Alleged new Le Mans car)

i just quoted what i read on endurance-info forum....

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

I couldn't confirm if it was a true or not, but someone on the "Salon Arnage" forum on endurance-info.com, on September 19, said that the French sports newspaper L'equipe published that the new Audi will be called R12 and it would be powered by a V8 4.4L essence.

4400 cc V8 petrol does not make sense. Turbo charged petrols are limited to 4000 cc.

So it must be a diesel, but that does not seem right either. Normally you use the maximum displacement for a certain restrictor size/boost pressure: 4000 cc, 4250 cc, 4500 cc, ..., 5500 cc.

Next year diesels get 10% less air, hence my guess for 10% less displacement = 5000 cc.