Mercedes to introduce revamped engine

[chunterer]

F1 Live are reporting that Mercedes are set to introduce a heavily revised version of the V8, which has caused some concern to the drivers so far who have sturggled to match top testing pace and not been brilliant on reliability either...

Not an unexpected development I wouldn't have thought?

[Marbot]

It's a little late in the day for 'hastily revised' engines.Most teams introduce new engines that have more power,it seems that Mercedes haven't quite grasped that concept yet.

[Kirk]

It's obvious that they can't just sit on their hands though. What a waste of talent if Kimi and JPM spend the year as slaves to mediocre machines.

[Rennen]

If I recall Ilmor had been used to using exotic metals in their V10's which are no longer permitted, this might well be part of their problem. Whatever their V8 was visable seriously short of puff.

[safc_fan89]

Fingers crossed it makes a difference. It would be a waste if Mclaren aren't near the front.

[sonic]

Times from Jerez today via autosport.com Slightly more promising from Merc.


Today's times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Alonso Renault (M) 1:16.956 90
2. Button Honda (M) 1:17.114 58
3. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:17.273 53
4. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:17.425 109
5. Barrichello Honda (M) 1:17.492 60
6. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (M) 1:17.588 116
7. Villeneuve BMW-Sauber (M) 1:18.069 91
8. Webber Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:18.281 86
9. Kovalainen Renault (M) 1:18.938 77
10. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:19.430 103
11. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:19.681 84
12. Rosberg Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:19.965 29
13. Monteiro MF1-Toyota (B) 1:21.911 29

[chunterer]

My concern as with Martyn's is that too much time - circa 2 months or more if you consider that it first ran in anger in SEPTEMBER - has been spent in testing of an engine...

So how on earth will Mclaren be able to replace that lost time in the run upto the first race getting the revised unit on song.

My, it will have to have some serious grunt, torue band and most importatnly of all reliability to allow them to truly compete, otherwise it'll be a repeat of last season, except instead of taking a third of the season to get the car talking properly, it's the engine they're figuring out!

[Dutton]

Perhaps the big revision coming is going to be the structured result of the months of testing they have been doing........

[chunterer]

That is certainly a common sense suggestion Dutton, yes.

However, they would have known quite soon after running with other teams that something was amiss with it, in November, so why have they waited a further 2 months to sort it out and carry on messing about with below par V8's and a V10 that they no longer need to bother with?

But they are the only team who have come out and admitted the need for re-development of an engine (unless we count overheating problems with Red Bull's Ferrari's was it, not sure if it was directly an engine issue or not?)

And who knows what exactly is being run at any one time? The current 'trend' is for Chief engineers to talk of evolutionary steps as soon as something is launched, so Toyota and Ferrari could also already be onto a 3rd 'revised' step engine?!

I.E is this new engine running already at Jerez?!

And by the first race Renault may have uprated their engine too?

Surely Mclaren would rather be fine tuning the chassis-engine set ups with only a month to go rather than having to dial a different engine into the car.

This testing campaign is all quite tricky to keep track of isn't it!

[Dutton]

********

There once was a pensive , who was sitting in wait, a real great fear, of the mammoth, dark septre, and blade of of mirth, with which scowered the streets. If the wasn't pensively peering as he shivered in the alley, alone in the dark, then he was sleeping, feeling much worse, as would visit, slithering, slicing, chasing would be running, but not alone, oh no, for he was always accompanied by his great friend .

[Dutton]

I am sure things are being revised in a more severe manner than would have originally been intended, I think that is clear, but I don't think they suddenly decided yesterday that they would prodce a new version. I am sure they have known for a longtime that things are in not the best of situations, and have been working on improving that since.

I am sure they would rather be fine tuning chassis/engine set-ups with a month to go, but they don't really have a great deal of choice. There isn't any point in waiting until the season starts.

You get the feeling that the fly-aways have been, in essence, written off, and that anything they get from them will be viewed as a bonus.

As far as I am aware, the RBR issue is a cooling systems one. So, that isn't an engine issue per say (unless I am missing something).

It is tricky to keep track of all testing campaigns. This is what makes them fun!

[chunterer]

I wonder how this will all pan out for the drivers then?!

Crikey, we could see real fireworks from both Kimi and JPM if they think their title chances are compromised from the beginning!

I can't see them just puttering about picking up the odd points whilst waiting for the package to reach optimum potential, especially as both are likely to be moving on at the end of the year.

I really hope both are able to compete straight away, they probably will.

But, i just don't know..

This time last year the package was quick in testing but didn't actually get it together for a few races, they cannot afford that to happen again this year.

[Dutton]

Hrmm. Just noticed some spelling/grammar errors in the "deleted double post" up there. Oh, well, life goes on!

*****

Well the package always had the potential last year, right from the start, they just weren't using it properly.

This time is a bit diferent.

I am not sure we would see that much in the way of fireworks, given that I doubt they will be expecting to do too brilliantly at the start.

[Marbot]

JPM tested the new engine at Jerez today and was impressed with it.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

JPM tested the new engine at Jerez today and was impressed with it.

Good, i had wondered what was in it for him to be significantly closer to the top than recently.

Does this mean Mclaren will be on the pace at the first race of the season?!

[Marbot]

"Better,faster and more reliable" they say,and it's done all of 53 laps!

Link

[Dutton]

Let us not get carried away.

He might be impressed with it in relation to the previous one. That does not necessarily mean it is great in itself.

[safc_fan89]

If it's an improvement, then that's good. But it's far too early to say if it's reliable or not. 53 laps around Jerez isn't that far a distance, and they won't all have been at race pace.

[poleaxe]

Montoya's time was set on low fuel, check the stats for each drivers laps below:

http://www.crono-jerez.com/2006/f1feb/lbl8.pdf

[Menelaos]

I'm sorry to put it this way, but Mercedes is the most unreliable company I have ever seen playing with the big boys in F1. They're totally incapable of working with a top team such as McLaren, and again I want to ask why on earth do the guys at McLaren's offices still stay with them. They have ruined McLaren's seasons MANY times recently. They are totally incapable of handling the job, it couldn't be any more obvious...!

[Dutton]

Well, when they get it right they produce a fine product.

[jhansen]

Ok Menelaos, so Mclaren should dump Mercedes Benz. Fair enough.

They drop a valued technical partner and major backer. Who exactly would they replace Mercedes Benz with? The ante is being upped every year. Toyota are walking the walk in the money department. Honda wont be far behind. BMW now have their own team. Renault are still looking tops for as long as they'll stay. Ferrari are still the business.

Who's left???? If you drop a technical/financial partner at this stage that happens to be one of the largest car makers in the world, well that's like cutting your legs off.

Edit: not to mention, then Mercedes could either go partner up with one of the remaining privateers, or just buy/build their own team. Now you just created a major competitor.

[Dutton]

It woudl be hard to get another manufacturer who would be as "into' the team as Mercedes are.

Mclaren know they have a big time, longterm partner with Mercedes.

A valuable asset to write the least.

They need to improve, no doubt, but that is something of a different issue.

[Dixie Flatline]

Mercedes actually owns a fair chunk of McLaren equity (IIRC, it's 60%). For the foreseeable future, McLaren and Mercedes are joined at the hip, at least until one raises enough cash to buy out the other.

[Dutton]

They own 40% I believe. Ron would want to keep at least 51% in his sphere of influence as long as he is with the team I would think.