[WEC] Alpine going to LMP1

[Tique]

Looks like Alpine will go to LMP1 using the R13 chassis. Sounds quite good

To be confirmed next monday
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...lmp1-for-2021/
https://www.autohebdo.fr/wec/actuali...gvfgzAX1L5k15w

[Juntos]

Quite a good idea and as it is a French brand it will enjoy a very good EoT.

[joeb]

This is great news and something I didn't expect! So we will have grandfathered LMP1's on the grid next year, I wonder if the ACO was secretly wishing not to have to deal with that equalization.

also, will this open up the door for somebody to run the Ginettas now that they will have some direct competition?

[hondafan37]

I wonder if we will have Fernando Alonso again at Le Mans 2021.

[GT6]

Well good that another LMP1 will be around but unsure if they will have much competition

[joeb]

Originally Posted by GT6

Well good that another LMP1 will be around but unsure if they will have much competition

You mean they will be so far out ahead that they will have no competition?

Really though, with the unknowns surrounding a new top formula, a reliable "old" car might not be a bad way to approach the race. I'm really interested to see what the ACO will do with the BOP. Can't slow it down too much or it will be in the LMP2 field.

[canaglia]

I know that alpine R13 will receive a huge ballast and a considerable power cut, but I think will be interesting to check cornering speed differences because in theory R13 should have however an overall better aero than GRSS

[Tique]

Thinking a bit more about the subject, I believe that for a cost point of view, it will be a good deal for Alpine. The LMP2 will be slowed down next year as IMSA did but the operating cost should be the same. The grandfathered R13 will be also slowed down (downgrade of the Gibson engine to the current LMP2 spec, a bit mre weight, ...). So for a cost point of view, I don't see a big difference betwenn the current Oreca 7 and the R13 that will be used next year. Just a shame that they are just planing to have just one car. It would have been nice to have Alonso back next year on an Alpine at Le mans with Ocon

[Aysedasi]

Another excellent chance to put another badge on a car..... Rebalpine.....

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

also, will this open up the door for somebody to run the Ginettas now that they will have some direct competition?

I guess but how do you mean direct competition, in a bop class everyone is direct competition. It was never going to be only "Hypercar entries" vs "LMP1 entries" balancing but also Hypercar vs Hypercar and (if applicable) LMP1 vs LMP1 balancing. So if say the CLM is entered, it is up to BoP to ensure that it not only does does the same theoretical lap times of Toyota Hypercar, but also Oreca-Alpine-Rebellion R13. The "Alpine" cannot be better or worse than CLM or Glickenhaus, it must be the same. (Of course, that's not how politics actually work, but you know, that's how bop is supposed to work)

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Another excellent chance to put another badge on a car..... Rebalpine.....

07 + R13, should be named Alpine R20

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I guess but how do you mean direct competition, in a bop class everyone is direct competition. It was never going to be only "Hypercar entries" vs "LMP1 entries" balancing but also Hypercar vs Hypercar and (if applicable) LMP1 vs LMP1 balancing. So if say the CLM is entered, it is up to BoP to ensure that it not only does does the same theoretical lap times of Toyota Hypercar, but also Oreca-Alpine-Rebellion R13. The "Alpine" cannot be better or worse than CLM or Glickenhaus, it must be the same. (Of course, that's not how politics actually work, but you know, that's how bop is supposed to work)

to be fair guess will be a lot easier to balance down R13 to GRSS performances than balance R13 to TS050 potential...

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by canaglia

to be fair guess will be a lot easier to balance down R13 to GRSS performances than balance R13 to TS050 potential...

Maybe with ByKolles, but didn't the success penalties in the sprint races show quite clearly that balancing the R13 and even Ginetta to the level of TS050 (or rather, dumbing down the TS050 to the level of others) isn't THAT hard if you start taking ludicrous steps

Also next year, when the P1(s) are bought down to the level of LMH, that will go to the point where LMP1 is no longer operating at it's "optimal window" and therefore there's the chance of parts starting to break apart. The difference will be larger than it was between 2010/2011 LMP1 transition and grandfathered chassis like Pescarolo continuing. And the R13 was never that reliable in the first place, at least at the 24 Hours

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Maybe with ByKolles, but didn't the success penalties in the sprint races show quite clearly that balancing the R13 and even Ginetta to the level of TS050 (or rather, dumbing down the TS050 to the level of others) isn't THAT hard if you start taking ludicrous steps

Also next year, when the P1(s) are bought down to the level of LMH, that will go to the point where LMP1 is no longer operating at it's "optimal window" and therefore there's the chance of parts starting to break apart. The difference will be larger than it was between 2010/2011 LMP1 transition and grandfathered chassis like Pescarolo continuing. And the R13 was never that reliable in the first place, at least at the 24 Hours

that isn't balance... is decide on paper who can win and who can't

Honestly don't know, since LMH will be heavier and in theory with much less aero; I think LMH pace will be just a bit faster than actual lmp2.
Then it needs also to be considered that glickenhaus LMH will achieve performance mainly by insane power/torque, while toyota will achieve it trought hybrid boost and overall better efficiency...
so before think about a bop between LMH and old lmp1, would be required an eot/bop/whatever between toyota and glickenhaus.
Anyway at worst guess alpineR13 could get a 930kgx600hp bop + mandatory aero settings

[Deleted]

That's the irony of "balance", it's never actually balance

Anyway...
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...paign=widget-1

The history of Alpine is made of challenges," commented Signatech team boss Philippe Sinault. "Few people believed in us as early as 2013 [when Alpine first entered the European Le Mans Series with Signatech], but we proved ourselves step by step to demonstrate that we were capable of evolving at the highest level.

"Few people believed" their Oreca 03 / 05 / 07s to do well? What? Where are these people

[deggis]

Hopefully this is part of a larger plan to move into LMDh (or even LMH), and the recent rebranding of Renault to Alpine F1 can't be totally unrelated in the bigger picture.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by deggis

Hopefully this is part of a larger plan to move into LMDh (or even LMH), and the recent rebranding of Renault to Alpine F1 can't be totally unrelated in the bigger picture.

Would be an odd move if this wasnt part of a bigger picture.

What do you really gain from just a single year in a grandfathered P1?

They (as in Renault) must also be rather conscious of the impending Pug entry in 2022, seems like getting in a year earlier than them and setting up shop isnt the worst strategy. Learn a bit about the series in 21, before hitting it with a pair of LMDH's in 22 to challenge Pug.

[Mike E]

Especially with the 100th anniversary race coming up in 2023.

[Lutzvic]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ore-it-starts/
simply disgusting....so anti-sportsmanship like
I really do hope this year Rebellion has some luck to mock Toyota

[GT6]

Once the two main french manufacturers are both entering grandfathered LMP1 cars then i think the ACO will be bending over backwards to ensure they will be in with a chance of an overall win

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by GT6

Once the two main french manufacturers are both entering grandfathered LMP1 cars then i think the ACO will be bending over backwards to ensure they will be in with a chance of an overall win

I wouldn't bet my kidneys on that.

[Tique]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ore-it-starts/
simply disgusting....so anti-sportsmanship like
I really do hope this year Rebellion has some luck to mock Toyota

He has been like for years now. Always crying even when the Toyota had a lap per stint advantage and the rest.


Looks like he doesn't like compétition

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ore-it-starts/
simply disgusting....so anti-sportsmanship like
I really do hope this year Rebellion has some luck to mock Toyota

Not really. You don't invest large wads of cash in a new car to new regs only to find yourself fighting with old grandfathered P1s.... What did you expect him to say? 'After you Claude'?

[GT6]

Grandfathered cars have been around for sometime, every time things change they seem to allow old cars to race if slightly hampered in some way

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Tique

He has been like for years now. Always crying even when the Toyota had a lap per stint advantage and the rest.


Looks like he doesn't like compétition

He didn't whine in 2014-2017, so in conclusion he doesn't like competition that doesn't use the same rules.