The World's most important touring car race

[Speed-King]

Here's something I was thinking about while waking up from my post-Bathurst nap:

In GT-racing, there are some unquestionable marque events like the 12h of Bathurst and the 24h races at Spa and the Nürburgring, not to mention Le Mans (though the GTs are rather overshadowed by the LMPs there). These big races far outshine the regular season rounds of any of the national and international GT-series.

In touring cars on the other hand, it all seems very 'flat'. There's very few standout races that are for some reason or another more important or prestigious than the rest of the regular season rounds. If I had to name two standouts it would probably be the Bathurst 1000 and the Guia Race at Macao, though the latter has been very much demoted to the status of a regular - if more chaotic - WTCC or TCR round in recent years. Back before the 2000s I guess Spa was a pretty big deal when it was still a touring car race, but by now that's of course ancient history.

So - can you guys think of any other candidates for the title of the "World's most Important TC race"?

And absent any worthy candidates: How and where could one create a touring car only event that would rival the international importance of the big GT-battles?

[pimmy]

I suppose Bathurst & Macau are the only big events now, like you mentioned. The rest either no longer exist, or are run for a different type of racing. The Fuji InterTEC and the Tourist Trophy being examples of each.

I know we have the Touring Car Endurance Series in Europe now, but I'd also like to see some professional long distance races outside of Australia.

[fieldodreams79]

Not too many years ago, Trans Am held a decent bit of importance. Perhaps that's national bias coming out and we're taking races, not series.

A track like Road Atlanta or similar might end up being too quick for prototypes in the near future and I could see a certain track, like the Ring catering to GT /TC only events in the next 10 years...

[Lando]

None.

But Macau is probably the one coming closest to this.

[S griffin]

Bathurst and Macau, none others really stand out

[Racing Harz]

Bathurst 1000!

[FIRE]

Unfortunately none.

For me personally Bathurst 1000 but to be the crown of touring car racing Bathurst lacks international entries. It would be different if the best drivers of WTCC, DTM, BTCC, STC2000 would be co-drivers in the Bathurst 1000 race.

Status of Macau has gone downwards in recent years. Way to much driving under yellow and small grids of WTCC aren't helping either.


It's a shame BTCC and DTM don't have a special race.

I hope in near future TCR will get a special event with +30 cars.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I hope in near future TCR will get a special event with +30 cars.

Agreed. TCR is probably our best shot at that. Will be interesting to see what format they'll pick for the end of season thing at Adria, but the choice of track alone suggests that it isn't likely to turn into a future classic.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Agreed. TCR is probably our best shot at that. Will be interesting to see what format they'll pick for the end of season thing at Adria, but the choice of track alone suggests that it isn't likely to turn into a future classic.

100 car grid at Nordschleife for a 500 km race

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by FIRE

100 car grid at Nordschleife for a 500 km race

1000 km with late evening start at Mo i Rana

[Speed-King]

A question for the South Americans on here:

In how far are the Buenos Aires 200k race and Race of the Million stand-out events in TC2000 and in Brazilian Stockcar? Do people pay more attention to those races than to regular season rounds? Is there any kind of mainstream interest for those that goes beyond what you see for other races?

[DS"]

The DTM race at Norisring could potentially be a big deal. The track is unique, it's a street course and it has lots of tradition. They actually a marque event, the 200 miles race and/or (Not sure if they're the same) the so called "money race". Nowadays, the Norisring is just a regular run-of-the-mill DTM round and that's a wasted opportunity in my opinion. In my opinion, the DTM should turn the Norisring round into a 200 mile race and award the winner one or two million €. Maybe even help out the manufacturers a bit with regards to one-off entries and require them to hire international top drivers.* Now I know that DTM cars are very different to adapt to, especially for GT and touring car drivers. But the Norisring isn't really a difficult track for a driver (in my opinion), so I think with enough testing, the one-offs should be alright. And if everything fails, they could still bring over some open-wheel guys, perhaps even Formula One drivers. I mean, it'd do some headlines if Mick Schumacher for example was to take part in a DTM race .

*Interestingly, the DTM tried something like that in 2005, when they brought the likes of Alain Prost, Nigel Mansell or Johnny Cecotto to partake in a legends race. Unfortunately, the idea went nowhere. They could do something similar with all former DTM champions for example. It'd be even better if they ran single-spec old DTM cars, but I guess it's rather hard to put 20+ M3s or 190e Evo IIs together.

[Speed-King]

They actually a marque event, the 200 miles race and/or (Not sure if they're the same) the so called "money race".

I think the 200 miles in the title of the Norisring event is cummulative.

According to this example from 1977 they did 70 laps (160km) in each of the two DRM-races and 50 laps (115km) for the money race (Geldrennen), in which both Divisions started in the same field.

With 160km being almost exactly 100 miles, that title most likely refers to the combined distance of the two DRM races.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think the 200 miles in the title of the Norisring event is cummulative.

According to this example from 1977 they did 70 laps (160km) in each of the two DRM-races and 50 laps (115km) for the money race (Geldrennen), in which both Divisions started in the same field.

With 160km being almost exactly 100 miles, that title most likely refers to the combined distance of the two DRM races.

I see, thanks for clarifying. Well then DTM could do two regular season races on Saturday and the big, one million €, 200 mile race on Sunday.

While a revived 1000 km race on the Nordschleife would be nice, it'd definitely have to be a multi-class race. But with proper modifications to track and cars, DTM, TCR, GT3 and perhaps some smaller classes like GT4 or single-spec touring cars like the Clio might fit there...well maybe not the Clios, who would probably be too slow .

But yeah, it's pretty sad that no one in Europe attempts to (re-)establish a big touring car race. I guess that's the result of the decline of touring car racing from the mid-00's to 2015 but maybe TCR will bring some sort of resurrection. Although it'd be even better if TCR allowed for a wider range of cars instead of compact cars with 2-litre turbos. But still, a 100-car TCR grid on the Nordschleife would be nice, a true Champions League final for TCR, so to speak .

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by DS"

I see, thanks for clarifying. Well then DTM could do two regular season races on Saturday and the big, one million €, 200 mile race on Sunday.

While a revived 1000 km race on the Nordschleife would be nice, it'd definitely have to be a multi-class race. But with proper modifications to track and cars, DTM, TCR, GT3 and perhaps some smaller classes like GT4 or single-spec touring cars like the Clio might fit there...well maybe not the Clios, who would probably be too slow .

But yeah, it's pretty sad that no one in Europe attempts to (re-)establish a big touring car race. I guess that's the result of the decline of touring car racing from the mid-00's to 2015 but maybe TCR will bring some sort of resurrection. Although it'd be even better if TCR allowed for a wider range of cars instead of compact cars with 2-litre turbos. But still, a 100-car TCR grid on the Nordschleife would be nice, a true Champions League final for TCR, so to speak .

Well, they did the 100 car Porsche support race for the N24 a few years ago... so that idea is perhaps not completely absurd. I'd definitely leave out the DTM-cars (too many modifications needed) and the GT3s (would overshadow the real touring cars), though. If you make TCR the top class, you can also more easily extent the field downwards towards the Clios, etc - though I am not sure that would even be needed.

I probably wouldn't go up to 1000k - historically that was always the sportscar distance. When the touring car race was part of the old ETCC they did 500k or sometimes 6h races races, but for starters, I'd even settle for a 200k distance.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

A question for the South Americans on here:

In how far are the Buenos Aires 200k race and Race of the Million stand-out events in TC2000 and in Brazilian Stockcar?

Do people pay more attention to those races than to regular season rounds? Is there any kind of mainstream interest for those that goes beyond what you see for other races?

In Argentina,the three major championships have tried to create marquee events. Some worked better than others, and their status changes year by year.

The Buenos Aires street race was massive. The 2016 OlavarrÃ*a 500km was massive. The first editions of the 200km Buenos Aires too.

[Speed-King]

So what went wrong with the BA200, making it less of a success these days? Just the novelty factor wearing off?

[NaBUru38]

As the peso lost value, it got harder to bring show cars and guest drivers from abroad.

Also, as several championships switched away from Canal 13 / Carburando, media coverage got split. Carburando stopped promoting next weekend's TC races, and Canal 7 did not promote next weekend's STC 2000 race.

[Matt]

...that and 200km is a laughably short distance to make into a marquee event.

[chunterer]

Used to be Spa 24, Bathurst, Nurby 24 or the ETC race, Silverstone TT and Monza 500 and possibly Macau or Fuji but the last 2 mentioned were more like show races rather than big time in the manufacturers eyes.

It's very very ordinary nowadays.

[S griffin]

Yes if only we could bring back the Spa 24 hours for the traditional tin tops, even in it's not too bad with the GTs now and also have Fuji and the Silverstone TT. That said having the WTCC at the Nurburgring surely must be up there

[Aunt Sally]

Originally Posted by FIRE

It's a shame BTCC don't have a special race.

Not Yet!!!

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Aunt Sally

Not Yet!!!

Are there plans?

[pimmy]

Bring back the Donington 500! (I know it wasn't a BTCC race)

[Metzo]

or the RAC Tourist Trophy for TCR cars.