WEC Race 4 Hours of Shanghai 2019

TheMightyM · 8 Nov 2019, 10:50 (Ref:3939200)

What happens if the WEC has a race and no one cares? That's kind of the situation for this one — China is one of the WEC that draws little interest from fans in Europe or the U.S.

This year's race features some dramatic BoP changes. Per S365:

Quote:

Sebastien Buemi feels that Toyota has “no real hope” of fighting for the overall win in Sunday’s 4 Hours of Shanghai, admitting they will even face a challenge from LMP2 machinery.

It comes amid considerable slowdowns handed to LMP1 machinery this weekend, in the latest round of Success Handicaps to the top class.

Buemi’s championship-leading Toyota TS050 Hybrid has been slowed by 2.74 seconds per lap, through fuel flow and energy reductions that has put the Japanese manufacturer on the back foot.

The No. 8 Toyota ended Friday’s Free Practice 1 sixth overall on the time sheets, 1.7 seconds slower than the pace-setting No. 1 Rebellion R13 Gibson and also slower than the quickest LMP2 car in the session.

More here.

Also S365 Friday notebook.

Deleted · 8 Nov 2019, 12:03 (Ref:3939213)

In the max speed charts the slower Toyota is less than 4km/h faster than top GTE car... and the faster Toyota 15km/h slower than slowest LMP2... this isn't funny anymore, even if Toyota winning all the time is 'boring' at least it is what it is, not manufactured... and yeah they might win regardless but the success bop still appears as joke, can't wait for more of this next year in "proper form"

Mike E · 8 Nov 2019, 12:51 (Ref:3939222)

Nicki Thiim: "I fought the Toyota Aygo for three or four laps, or whatever that was."

Oh dear.

Deleted · 8 Nov 2019, 13:00 (Ref:3939223)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

Nicki Thiim: "I fought the Toyota Aygo for three or four laps, or whatever that was."

Oh dear.

Okay I correct my words, this is somewhat funny still

In it's absurdity

Where's good old Vincent Beaumesnil now

chernaudi · 8 Nov 2019, 13:53 (Ref:3939232)

Not to mention that the success ballast/BOP has slowed all the LMP1s by several seconds compared to last year, while LMP2 is just as fast or faster than last year.

Only thing that might keep an LMP2 out of the mix is the enforced pro-am driver line ups.

Toyotas have reportedly been struggling to pass most GTE cars and LMP2s down the straights, and the other LMP1s have also had similar struggles.

Truckosaurus · 8 Nov 2019, 14:00 (Ref:3939233)

Is my mental arithmetic correct and the race is 4am-8am UK time?

Also, is paying the €4 on the WEC website still the only way to watch live this season? (Not that I would at that time in the morning)

Deleted · 8 Nov 2019, 14:03 (Ref:3939234)

It'll be even worse at Bahrain (and that's double the length of this race) given that even if Toyotas finish 3rd or 4th or whatever, they'll still be receiving further bop penalties on top of this, right?

It would be best for them to DNF now and get stuff lifted for December, as Bahrain (and Sebring) award proportionally more points than any other event anyway. Not that they're ever gonna lose the championship anyway, but you know

Mike E · 8 Nov 2019, 14:08 (Ref:3939235)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truckosaurus

Is my mental arithmetic correct and the race is 4am-8am UK time?

Also, is paying the €4 on the WEC website still the only way to watch live this season? (Not that I would at that time in the morning)

I believe the whole race is live on Eurosport because of the unsociable hours and because it is shorter than usual.

The ginger prince · 8 Nov 2019, 14:34 (Ref:3939244)

The race is also live on BT sport extra. If its the same as previous races then it'll be available to stream on the app once it kicks off.

**joeb** · 8 Nov 2019, 14:45 (Ref:3939246)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

Nicki Thiim: "I fought the Toyota Aygo for three or four laps, or whatever that was."

Oh dear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Not to mention that the success ballast/BOP has slowed all the LMP1s by several seconds compared to last year, while LMP2 is just as fast or faster than last year.

This is one of the things I don't get about the success handicap formula. Why do non-winning cars get penalized?

Deleted · 8 Nov 2019, 15:09 (Ref:3939248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

This is one of the things I don't get about the success handicap formula. Why do non-winning cars get penalized?

Remember the words of our god Vincent

"-- In general motorsport has to evolve in that direction."

“You can introduce a system, as long as the rule is the same for everybody, it remains a sport."

“It’s up to everybody to be the best, because over a season, even with a system like this, I think the best will win."

“Closer racing and less costs is the right approach for the sport today.”

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...other-classes/

(don't fear the sounds, it's just me vomiting blood)

tux · 8 Nov 2019, 16:25 (Ref:3939257)

Lol

TF110 · 8 Nov 2019, 17:36 (Ref:3939271)

They really messed with the lmp1's hard this round didn't they? I think all of them except one of the Ginetta's has success penalties applied. But in FP2 they were only .061 ahead of the #8. Not sure which of the Ginetta's has the penalties but the leading car was the #6 of Charles Robertson.

chernaudi · 8 Nov 2019, 17:36 (Ref:3939272)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

This is one of the things I don't get about the success handicap formula. Why do non-winning cars get penalized?

Granted, Shanghai is unique even for a F1 Tilkedrome in that it's got a ton of start and stop and several very long straights. LMP2s speeds is governed by an air restrictor, just like the GTE cars. So they don't need to lift and coast like even the "unrestricted" LMP1s still probably have to to some extent.

But even allowing for that, you know that things are kinda screwed up when even the LMP1s that are known for top speed/straightline pace are having issues passing LMP2 and GTE cars.

Not to hijack this thread and run it into the ground, but that's the one thing I don't really like or get about LMP1 Hypercar. The ACO put in a lot of effort the past few years speeding up the GTE/GTLM cars, then the LMP2 cars, just to have to undo a lot of that because of the LMP1s getting hammered in terms of potential max laptimes around LM and elsewhere. I mean 3:30 around LM? I doubt that the LMP1 Hypercars will be that slow, but c'mon! Audi R10s were doing that in 2006 around a slower version of the current LM circuit. Audi R8s were doing that in 2002. Toyota GT-Ones were doing that in '99!

Either with this LMP1 rewards/success BOP and LMP1 Hypercar reduction of laptimes is progress on the part of the ACO, well, I have a bridge to sell you and I'm engaged to Victoria Justice.

Deleted · 8 Nov 2019, 18:00 (Ref:3939277)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

Nicki Thiim: "I fought the Toyota Aygo for three or four laps, or whatever that was."

Oh dear.

You can see how Buemi doesn't even smile to that comment in the press conference, knows too well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o2A...youtu.be&t=530

Akrapovic · 8 Nov 2019, 18:22 (Ref:3939281)

Am I missing something? +0.061 is nothing.

TF110 · 8 Nov 2019, 19:12 (Ref:3939291)

1.5 seconds to lmp2 is also nothing and WAY too close. The Toyota's are struggling to pass GT cars. They went too far with their 'success handicap'. Instead of pushing the Toyota's further down with fuel flow, they should have just limited the hybrid amount per lap. The fuel flow is what affects their top speed because of the need to lift and coast.

Truckosaurus · 8 Nov 2019, 19:37 (Ref:3939296)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike E

...Eurosport ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by The ginger prince

...BT sport extra....

Excellent, I think I should have both those channels.

I might not be setting the alarm for 0400 but tuning in at half time has a chance of happening.

tux · 9 Nov 2019, 03:01 (Ref:3939350)

Yet they were still fastest in P3, i think someones playing games.....

helgi · 9 Nov 2019, 06:39 (Ref:3939369)

A wise ACO and FIA politics of BoP leads to second class superiority. LMP1 Oreca is going to be slowly than LMP2, having 65 more HP and aero tweaks possibility. They call this "progress".

TF110 · 9 Nov 2019, 08:43 (Ref:3939384)

Rebellion pole by over a second on average. Not what I expected but very good to see.

helgi · 9 Nov 2019, 09:55 (Ref:3939392)

Looks like Toyota didn't expect that too.
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-lack-of-pace/

GT6 · 9 Nov 2019, 10:43 (Ref:3939398)

Have set to record, so i can watch at leisure.

Deleted · 9 Nov 2019, 11:16 (Ref:3939405)

I suspect Shanghai 2019 will mirror the 2020-2024 seasons in rather detail... this is the sort of thing they wanted, this is the sort of thing they will get

We have Le Mans 2020 as the sole exception, as the success bop won't be used there and hybrid tech actually matters and the nature of the track will make the spec P2s 10 seconds or whatever off the overall pace again, but that's abut it

Gingers4Justice · 9 Nov 2019, 17:30 (Ref:3939472)

What time does the race start UP tiem?

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