Touring Car Greats

[Touringcarfanatic]

Im a pretty new touring car fan but id love to hear peoples opinions on the following
TOP 5 drivers
For each decade
or
For each regulations
or
For Each series

And Maybe the best touring car drivers period

Should be some fun reading and posting

[XLR Motorsport]

As a 10-year-old boy standing on the banks of Brands Hatch in the mid-90's, personally, my racing hero was Alain Menu, right through to the mid-00's.

But realistically, the likes of Steve Soper, 'Smokin' Jo' Winklehock, Tim Harvey, Jeff Allam, John Clelland, Andy Rouse and, in my opinion, Patrick Watts and the late (great!) Will Hoy were the stars of the BTCC. It's difficult to pick a top 5.


As for the past ten years, the Jason Plato/Matt Neal battles have been legendary and Paul O'Neill has always been a fan favourite.

[Andy Clegg]

Hans Stuck was good to watch in the 1980's.

[nicanary]

Well back in the 50s Jaguar used to enter works cars, driven by such as Stirling Moss and mike Hawthorn.

In the 60s there were simply superb midfield dices between the Sunbeam Rapier of Peter Harper, the Riley 1.5 of Alan Hutcheson and the Borgward Isabella of Bill Blydenstein. All near-standard, but that added to the fun, since they were heeling over in corners with squealing tyres - huge entertainment. And all clean, with minimal door-rubbing.

Later in that era we had Jim Clark three-wheeling his Lotus-Cortina round every bend, and the works Minis of Whitmore, Love and Banks taking corners wreathed in smoke as they flung the cars sideways at 45 degrees.Scintillating stuff that can't be replicated today with modern tyres and chassis technology.

Sorry, but it really WAS better back then.

[Peat]

'The man's an animal!'

[NaBUru38]

I will list my top drivers from the past 10 years (2003-2012). Mind that I don't see WTCC or DTM, so I judged mostly on results.

DTM:

1. Mattias Ekström
2. Gary Paffett
3. Bernd Schneider
4. Bruno Spengler
5. Paul di Resta

WTCC:

1. Andy Priaulx
2. Yvan Muller
3. Gabriele Tarquini
4. Jörg Müller
5. Dirk Müller
6. Augusto Farfus

Argentine TC2000:

1. MatÃ*as Rossi
2. Gabriel Ponce de León
3. Norberto Fontana
4. José MarÃ*a López
5. Juan Manuel Silva

[NaBUru38]

Now let's make some history:

BTCC 1992-2000:

1. Alain Menu
2. Rickard Rydell
3. John Cleland
4. James Thompson
5. Jason Plato

DTM 1988-1996:

1. Klaus Ludwig
2. Bernd Schneider
3. Kurt Thiim
4. Roland Asch
5. Johnny Cecotto

[D-Type]

In the seventies the RAC awardes points in the BTCC based on class performance rather than overall, AND the classes were based on retail price. Tony Lanfranchi spotted that the 1500cc Moskvitch was in the same class as the basic Minis, Imps and baby Fiats. Although it didn't corner like them it was significantly faster in a straight line. While the Camaros, Capris, BMWs, etc raced each other at the front of the field, towards the back a hard-driven Moskvitch regularly won its class and Lanfranchi became the unexpected champion. I think, more than once.

[Andy Clegg]

If you want spectacular, then Karl Jones and Chris Hodgetts in the Sierra RS500's. Rob Gravett and Andy Rouse also in the Sierras. I watched at most rounds between 1988 and 1990.
Ulf Granberg was quick in the early 80's.
Cleland in the Cavaliers.

[Clive Brown]

I don't think so. Lanfranchi's Moskvich ran in a domestic production saloon car series which was heavily promoted by MCD and did indeed set its classes by retail price, but prod. saloons never ran for the RAC championship. Lanfranchi's Moskvich did in any case have front suspension which resembled not in the slightest any Moskvich which had ever left the factory. Something about front wishbones installed upside down, IIRC....

The RAC championship ran for Gp. 2 until the end of the 1973 season, when it was undermined by a few has-beens and never-weres, who managed to persuade the RAC to opt for a sort of Group 1 spec., which was a formula for cheats and no-hopers if ever I saw one. The prime mover in this was a man who couldn't beat Frank Gardner in equal Camaros, and attempted to cover his inadequacies by pushing through a change of formula.

Surprise, surprise; he couldn't win in his Group 1 Camaro either....

[Clive Brown]

Best ever RAC driver? Easy, Frank Gardner.

Most under-rated RAC driver? Bill McGovern. Triple Champion. Why could no-one ever beat him mano-e-mano in an identical make and model, built to the same regulations?

Most over-rated driver? John Cleland. Made his way up through well-funded production saloon efforts, and somehow ended up in the top flight. Dirty driver, but his total lack of class was finally totally exposed by Steve Soper.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword....

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Best ever RAC driver? Easy, Frank Gardner.

Most under-rated RAC driver? Bill McGovern. Triple Champion. Why could no-one ever beat him mano-e-mano in an identical make and model, built to the same regulations?

Most over-rated driver? John Cleland. Made his way up through well-funded production saloon efforts, and somehow ended up in the top flight. Dirty driver, but his total lack of class was finally totally exposed by Steve Soper.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword....

Heartily agree with you re Bill McGovern but think you so very, very wrong about John Cleland - he was a class act on & off track. There were certainly dirtier drivers than he & compared with the present-day disgraceful conduct of Plato (again both & off track) he was a veritable paragon of virtue.

As one who was reporting on BTCC thru' the ST era I found it curious that what I considered to be the four classiest drivers - Alain Menu, Jo Winkelhock, Gabriele Tarquini & Frank Biela - all came from abroad, although Menu admittedly had worked his way up through British FF, F3 & F3000. As well as being stars on track all were a pleasure to deal with off track.

[The Shrew]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Best ever RAC driver? Easy, Frank Gardner.
Most over-rated driver? John Cleland. Made his way up through well-funded production saloon efforts, and somehow ended up in the top flight. Dirty driver, but his total lack of class was finally totally exposed by Steve Soper.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword....

I disagree about Cleland. He was always fairly clean in fact all TC drivers were. All of a sudden in the early - mid 90's they all seemed to get a bit naughty Cleland followed with the croud. It then turned into the rubbish bumper car racing it is today :-( Agree though Soper was a better driver than Cleland.

The most dirty driver i can remember was Tim Sugden had more hits than Elvis.

[Andy Clegg]

Never watch these days even on TV. Roberto Ravaglia won a lot of championships for BMW.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Hans-Joachim Stuck with the V8 quattro DTM. That 1990 season was an epic one, and looking to these videos and the golden years of the DTM, something really magic

Video: Audi V8 quattro revolution in the DTM

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Touringcarfanatic

Im a pretty new touring car fan but id love to hear peoples opinions on the following
TOP 5 drivers
For each decade
or
For each regulations
or
For Each series

And Maybe the best touring car drivers period

Should be some fun reading and posting

Couldn't you ask an easier question?

[formerf1champ]

Having thought about it for a while and knowing a post can be edited later on, this is what I've got so far...

ATCC - Group A - '85 to '92

Jim Richards was the best and that's all you need to know.

ATCC /V8 Supercar - '93 til now

Neil Crompton!...Nah, just kinding!

Marcos Ambrose was the best one. Then, your choice of Mark Skaife, Craig Lowndes, Jamie Whincup. Glenn Seton would be fifth best. (John Bowe didn't make the top 5! I thought he was a beast as well!)

BTCC - Super Touring -'91 to '00

This was a bit hard, because most of the gun drivers swapped back and forth, competing in it with other series. But if I had my own BTCC team at the time and could choose any drivers, Joachim Winklehock and Rickard Rydell would be the first two to be offered a contract. I'll leave it at that.

Other

Not that I saw a lot of European touring cars oustside the ST BTCC, but Laurent Aiello has a monster record. 4 titles in 3 countries with 3 manufacturers, 4 teams under 2 regulations? Outstanding! I've often had the impression Bernd Schnieder is a German Mark Skaife? Their motorsport doppelgangers? There was Johnny Cecotto as well.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by XLR Motorsport

But realistically, the likes of Steve Soper,

Originally Posted by The Shrew

Agree though Soper was a better driver than Cleland.

Can either of you, or anyone else, explain why he never won a major title, or major European title?

Originally Posted by XLR Motorsport

Patrick Watts and the late (great!) Will Hoy were the stars of the BTCC. It's difficult to pick a top 5.

I thought he was a bit stiff to not get at least one win in the BTCC. I remember the Peugeot being a good car for '94 where he picked off a few podiums. If Alfa didn't have controversial aero, maybe he would've (maybe clutching at straws). There was also the time where he led at Knochill in the Mazda.

[Icebaby]

So many good drivers over the years its difficult to single some out but I would go for:

James Thompson

I thought his time in the Alfa in 07 the stand out season for him.

[chunterer]

Yeah Tommo was always one of the top guys in the heyday of the Class 2 era, but the cards never quite fell right for him did they?

For me Andy Rouse is probably the best of all time, most certainly in terms of Group A. Not only could he drive almost anything quickly, he also engineered a lot of them. In that respect the only people who come close would be Peter Brock, TW and probably Dicko?

Group A drivers alone? Soperman, Ravaglia, Stuck, Ludwig, Percy, Richards and Grice were the top guys imo.

Prior to that in Group 1 in Britain and Gordy Spice was always the man to beat but by the end of the Capri days, it was Vince Woodman who was the main man valliantly taking on the TWR and Martin Thomas Rovers.

The Grp 5/Grp 2 period? well that must be Frank Gardner or Yogi Muir surely?