Ferrari - Who is the better driver?

[stido]

I wanted to do a poll up for this, but i couldnt find the option to make one.

Just a question regarding this years lineup. Who in your opinion is the better ferrari driver. Kimi Raikkonen or Felipe Massa!

Ill start. I feel Kimi has more hunger to win. His retirements have hurt him alot this season, but that is a ferrari fault, Not driver.

Either way a great lineup

[steve nielsen]

I think Kimi will do better next season, Felipe has an advantage this year because he knows the team and the car better.

[Ralf's Girl]

I've always thought Raikkonen was the better driver, and I still do. I think Massa has had the advantage this year from already being bedded in at the team, not to mention having Schumacher around to help him out. That can't have been a good situation for Raikkonen to be in, having the guy he replaced hanging over his shoulder all the time (his results did improve somewhat when Michael stopped attending races...). Raikkonen also seems to have suffered more with car failures, and if it wasn't for those I think he'd probably be above Massa in the championship.

I think next season, as long as Ferrari don't decide to go back to choosing one driver to favour over the other, we'll see much more from Raikkonen.

[Born Racer]

It's a bit unfair there is no poll option here. If this goes to, say, three pages, no-one is going to trawl through and tally up all the responses just to get an idea of the result to the question.

I still think Raikkonen has more pace than Massa, but Massa is impressing me more and more. He often seems slightly poor at coming through the field though.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

It's a bit unfair there is no poll option here. If this goes to, say, three pages, no-one is going to trawl through and tally up all the responses just to get an idea of the result to the question.

If you need a poll, all you need to do is get in contact with a mod.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

It's a bit unfair there is no poll option here. If this goes to, say, three pages, no-one is going to trawl through and tally up all the responses just to get an idea of the result to the question.

Life is unfair and the injustices are explained in the FAQ
I was tempted to add a third driver, but then the question isn't who is the best driver at Ferrari?

[mjstallard]

Hmm. I voted Raikkonen...although I'm thinking I might have made the wrong choice!

Raikkonen is definitely the man over one lap, although Massa is definitely getting the job done when luck doesn't seem to be running against him. As others have pointed out it will be interesting to see what happens next year once Kimi is more settled within the team - and whether Felipe will get a pay rise should he get the WDC!

[flor]

All i know is Heidfeld is better than both of them

[Chiefy]

I think Raikkonen takes it on raw talent. Massa is the product of a quiet afternoon in the potting shed for Michael Schumacher - and not a bad mould of a racing driver he's turned out to be... But he's no Kimi.

[Kidzer]

I vote Kimi, I've been impressed with his speed since I've been a fan of his(although, it wasn't his speed that drew me to him, he had a cool name! ), and I beleive he is a superior driver.

Notice, I said driver - I think Massa is more in the Alonso mould, not quite as quick as Kimi, but a smarter raced probably.

[JeremySmith]

We will know the answer to this qeustion on the 21st of October..

[pottiella]

I don't really think this year's results are at all any reflection on who is the better driver. Massa has had a WAY bigger advantage amidst the many changes Kimi has faced - and even when Kimi won the first race he was saying how he wasn't particularly comfortable with the car...namely because of the bridgstones...never mind the fact Massa was already embedded into the team!

I think Massa is a very well "refined" driver...he wasn't very good, but he's a very hard worker and has really relentlessly tried to learn from others to improve himself...you gotta give him that.

But a refined driver is not the same as a naturally good driver - and that I think Kimi is. No - a great driver! I'm far from a fan of Kimi's but I do rate him highly. He makes the odd mistake, but that is a combination of his oversteery driving style with the fact he is frighteningly on the limit (he's one of the few drivers who sent a shiver down my spine when driving past me at Silverstone - and I didn't even realise it was Kimi until later!). This isn't the same as Massa's old ragged driving.

Then take into account races; Massa is no newbie anymore, yet he has too often this year lost pole position, and has yet to demonstrate the ability to overtake his main rivals during a race, never mind win the race without being on pole position.

Overall, far too much weighs in Kimi's favour, regardless of what the points say at the end of the season.

[Ralf's Girl]

That's what I meant...I just didn't put it as well as that.

[Knowlesy]

I think Kimi is quicker but lacks in other areas.

I think Massa is the more diligent worker but has a speed shortcoming.

It kind of balances out over the season I suppose. Well, this one at least.

[Inigo Montoya]

I think this is too close to call. My gut tells me that Kimi should be faster, but I haven't seen anything that proves this. Lets just say they are both real fast.

[pottiella]

Massa has a speed shortcoming?! He started to match Schumi in the same Ferrari last year...and that Ferrrari was effectively built FOR Schumi! I don't think speed is necessarily the issue...it's more about the "management" of driving - if this is a question of who is the better driver in the true sense of the word.

There is no natural individuality to Massa's driving or way of thinking as a driver...he himself has admitted to trying to follow Michael Schumacher, and be like him. All he does now is get into the car, and drive the car well, knowing now where to get the speed out of the car. But that is as a result of his dilligence...whereas Kimi brings his own to the table: completely Kimi in a car, in a race, and probably not much more.

Being faster doesn't necessarily make a better driver...but while Kimi is fast, it's other things that I feel make him a better driver.

[Knowlesy]

Shortcoming is a more dramatic word than I require I guess.

I do believe Kimi is slightly faster overall. And I think he has potential to go a lot faster too, he hasn't truly been on it this season.

[pottiella]

fair enough...and I quite agree...

[duke_toaster]

They are both as quick as each other overall. Hence, no vote.

[BootsOntheSide]

I suppose the big grey area involves mechanical sympathy. Kimi has had more failures than Massa, and has usually had more failures than his team-mates in the past (even Montoya, who already had a reputation as a car-breaker). Is this just bad luck, or a result of overdriving, or of Massa preparing more and dialling his style into the car, or of the car being (not deliberately) designed in Massa's favour (Massa having modelled himself on Michael somewhat)?

With all that up in the air, it's hard to justify the current 19-5 score in Kimi's favour. Massa may not be as naturally talented, and he was certainly ragged early in his career, but has he now overcome those problems. Once out in front he usually looks unbeatable, although he's made mistakes in traffic. Perhaps neither is as strong as Lewis or Fernando (or Heidfeld?)

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Perhaps neither is as strong as Lewis or Fernando

Agreed. I'd probably rate Lewis, Fernando and the two BMW drivers as the top 4 in F1, then the FIAT guys.

(or Heidfeld?)

Remember Kubica - a Lewis/Robert driver lineup would probably be the best package, if not now but in 1 or 2 years.

Bear in mind the reliability issue in McLaren - Lewis would have a larger lead if it wasn't for two tyre faliures.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

I think this is too close to call. My gut tells me that Kimi should be faster, but I haven't seen anything that proves this. Lets just say they are both real fast.

i guess thats the problem with polls...there is always another option

but i agree with Inigo here. there really isnt anything that has happened this season that puts one over the other. Kimi's superfast, but he cant be faster over one lap if he continually makes mistakes during that lap. my assesment of Ferrari (this season) can also be seen this way...too many small mistakes from everyone for me to have a clear view on who's the better driver.

[Mr V]

How come this thread gets a poll and mine doesn't?

Back o/t...

I'm convinced that Kimi isn't the driver he's made out to be. Sure he's strong and fast, but he's prone to errors occasionally. (Monaco quali, Nurburgring race)

Felipe, imo, has had the more bad luck (Canada DSQ, Silverstone start from the pit lane) but is still ahead of Kimi in the table.

Overall, i'd say that Felipe is the better driver. But as i've just said that, i've probably now jinxed his season

[Nicholosophy]

Massa has been at Ferarri for a while now and so should be more comfortable there. I will be interested to see next year when both drivers have had more input into the new chassis and when TGF has had less input into the chassis.

Next year will be the real test. If Massa is modelling himself on TGF then I can imagine that he will be trying to build the team around him just like TGF did. Having a relationship with your team like that was probably one of the things that made TGF as good as he was - he had good cars because the team wanted to give him a good car. If Felipe can draw that out from his engineers he should be all over the Iceman next year.

[stido]

I class a race driver on their hunger to win.

How often has Kimi taken the fastest lap of the race on the final lap of the race! Hes done it several times this season.

Alonso and Massa are about conserving points. Kimi is a demon and will stop at nothing. He races until the very end of the grand prix. Hence why i reckon he is the better driver