Mallory Park 15th May

[deadsquirrel]

Great day (spectating) of racing!

Just one question - I don't really want to know the answer, but there WAS a rescue unit there today wasn't there?

[The Fat Clerk]

As a CofC there today, of course there was............................

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

As a CofC there today, of course there was............................

Is that the new type, with cloaking?

[The Fat Clerk]

Something like that, it wasn't an MSA sanctioned event, so ran to slightly different standards. However I can assure you there were more Medical Staff (particularly Doctors) there today than at a normal car or bike race meeting (BSB excepted)

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Something like that, it wasn't an MSA sanctioned event, so ran to slightly different standards. However I can assure you there were more Medical Staff (particularly Doctors) there today than at a normal car or bike race meeting (BSB excepted)

So where do the marshals stand insurance wise? Are they covered by BMMC as it is a non-MSA event?

The drivers, who are used to running 1/4 mile ovals, accept the risk they take (VERY few incidents thankfully). Many probably haven't thought about the consequences of a 'biggie' at Mallory - but paying £2 each (less than a pint!) might seem a fair insurance.

To save a couple of hundred quid by not having 'standard' levels of cover is barking mad in my mind. These cars crash just as hard, and probably aren't as well built as most MSA series cars.

I'm ranting only at the dual standards here - which is easy to solve. The racing is superb, there's no shortage of cars, marshals were there in preference to Silverstone (good on you chaps!).

[Andrew Palmer]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

Is that the new type, with cloaking?

Here is the equipment list for a BISCA rescue unit.
28. Cutting Equipment:
Cutting equipment must be available in the immediate vicinity of the track. It is recommended that a power cutting wheel, a minimum of four hacksaws and blades and other tools for use in an emergency, such as freeing a driver from his car, are available throughout the meeting in the track area. Makes your Midland's Unit look over equiped.

So deadsquirrel the unit wasn't cloaked just hiding in a tool box some where

[chezza]

Was this the national hot rod meeting??

[The Fat Clerk]

Believe me there was much more than adequate safety cover for the drivers & marshals, just because there wasn't a recognisable Rescue Unit there doesn't mean to say that all the scenarios had not been covered, the whole event was in my opinion (& it is only an opinion) better covered than any 'Clubby' years of practice have seen to that & I, and am sure all the BMMC Marshals will be back next year (same weekend)

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Andrew Palmer

Here is the equipment list for a BISCA rescue unit.
28. Cutting Equipment:
Cutting equipment must be available in the immediate vicinity of the track. It is recommended that a power cutting wheel, a minimum of four hacksaws and blades and other tools for use in an emergency, such as freeing a driver from his car, are available throughout the meeting in the track area. Makes your Midland's Unit look over equiped.

So deadsquirrel the unit wasn't cloaked just hiding in a tool box some where

Assuming you mean BRISCA!

People scoff at hacksaws, but they ARE effective, and in MOST cases will take a car to pieces. Not so sure about a power cutting wheel though...
What does 'other tools' comprise? Why is there not a comprehensive list of the tools needed?

I want to believe every scenario was covered - just struggling at the moment.

If the cover was above 'clubby' standards, maybe rescue units are redundant?

Last time I got to this meeting, I believe the BRSCC Mids rescue unit attended.

[schrammy]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Believe me there was much more than adequate safety cover for the drivers & marshals, just because there wasn't a recognisable Rescue Unit there doesn't mean to say that all the scenarios had not been covered, the whole event was in my opinion (& it is only an opinion) better covered than any 'Clubby' years of practice have seen to that & I, and am sure all the BMMC Marshals will be back next year (same weekend)

Never a dull moment, slick organisation and superb racing......... try and keep me away!

[flagwaver]

Please enlighteen us Fat clerk why was this meeting better coverd than any clubby?

[The Fat Clerk]

More Doctors & Paramedics, more Breakdown vehicles & most importantly MORE MARSHALS, this meeting is traditionally very well suopported by a mix of InCaRace & BMMC marshals.

[flagwaver]

Well if thats your recipe for a well coverd meeting fair enough, but I still feel that to say the meeting was better coverd than any clubby is rather sweeping.

[Andrew Palmer]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

Assuming you mean BRISCA!

People scoff at hacksaws, but they ARE effective, and in MOST cases will take a car to pieces. Not so sure about a power cutting wheel though...
What does 'other tools' comprise? Why is there not a comprehensive list of the tools needed?

Yes I do mean BRISCA sorry the finger where not awake this morning.

The other tools are what you want. I know Skegness has a Feista van with a combi tool and power pack on the passenger seat and in the foot well.

I also wonder about the cutting wheel and nothing is said about a power source for it.

For quick starting and fast deployment a hacksaw work for me as well deadsquirrel.

[The Fat Clerk]

I Marshal (Observer) around 30 days a year at Clubmens/Nat B meetings and am C of C @ around 30 more. The Mallory InCaRace meeting stands above the bulk of them

[flagwaver]

"the bulk of them" is different to any clubby.
So from what you are saying you see no need for rescue units?

[The Fat Clerk]

That's not what I'm saying at all, at Mallory on the Oval, which is less than a mile long, with 3 access points, the circumstances are different, to somwhere like Rockingbore that's all.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

That's not what I'm saying at all, at Mallory on the Oval, which is less than a mile long, with 3 access points, the circumstances are different, to somwhere like Rockingbore that's all.

The Mallory Oval is 1.00 mile (hence the name Mallory Mile) long.

Rockingham Oval is 1.479 Miles long, also with 3 access points.

My point in raising this discussion is that a Nat B RACMSA event REQUIRES a resuce unit and licensed crew in attendance for racing to occur.
The Incarace event features cars going just as fast, with drivers who are NOT used to running a mile oval. So, why are people 'ok' that there is no rescue unit for this event?

I have at no point denegrated Mallory, so why do so to Rockingham? If you do not enjoy the racing/marshalling there, that's your choice, but I see no point to make such comments.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

My point in raising this discussion is that a Nat B RACMSA event REQUIRES a resuce unit and licensed crew in attendance for racing to occur.
The Incarace event features cars going just as fast, with drivers who are NOT used to running a mile oval. So, why are people 'ok' that there is no rescue unit for this event?

But to all intents and purposes it is a different sport that happens to have some of the same things in common. And the answer is, surely, that there is more than one way to adequately cover a meeting to a (more than) acceptable standard. I don't think anyone would suggest that a rescue unit is not a worthwhile thing to have. But by having a good coverage of marshals and medical staff you can reach the same overall level of cover, I would say. Having a rescue unit on course does not stop cars crashing or people getting hurt or worse - we've seen that, tragically. To suggest that a meeting is inherently less well "covered" because there is no rescue unit is extremely wrong-headed in my view.

[gwar]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

That's not what I'm saying at all, at Mallory on the Oval, which is less than a mile long, with 3 access points, the circumstances are different, to somwhere like Rockingbore that's all.

Each circuit has its good and bad points, if there's circuits that you don't like then please do not insult it as there are other people that do like that circuit. Circuits get bad names by people making derogatory comments about it and if you are a Clerk of the Course then I would have expected a little bit more decorum and an unbias opinion about your views on various circuits. We visit most circuits around the country and Europe and there are good and bad points about all of them but we do not air these comments over the internet. Marshals can go and make up their own decisions about how good the circuit is. hrug:

[flagwaver]

A rescue unit provides one thing that doctors & marshals don't (please note the use of the word don't as oposed to the word can't) & that is a means to get a trapped driver out of a vehicle. Whilst you can use a hacksaw, I think in this day and age people expect more.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

But to all intents and purposes it is a different sport that happens to have some of the same things in common. And the answer is, surely, that there is more than one way to adequately cover a meeting to a (more than) acceptable standard. I don't think anyone would suggest that a rescue unit is not a worthwhile thing to have. But by having a good coverage of marshals and medical staff you can reach the same overall level of cover, I would say.

Having a rescue unit on course does not stop cars crashing or people getting hurt or worse - we've seen that, tragically. To suggest that a meeting is inherently less well "covered" because there is no rescue unit is extremely wrong-headed in my view.[/QUOTE]

So what kit would you have to extricate a trapped driver/marshal/whoever without a rescue unit? Do you resort to calling 999? You too seem to be saying rescue units are unnecessary?

[Ian Sowman]

No, I'm not saying that. Merely that, in the eyes of the people that organise and govern this sport they are satisfied that they can ensure that the meeting is covered adequately from a safety perspective without an MSA-style rescue unit.

[Andrew Palmer]

Here is a point to think on.

Coventry Stadium hire the BARC Midlands Rescue Unit for its short oval racing. They Stock Rod, Stock Cars, F1 and F2, plus others. Last year the unit removed a roof of one car in which the driver was trapped. A similar incident at Wimbeldon required the fire service!

I agree with Ian the people that organise and govern any event must be satisfied that they can ensure that the meeting is covered adequately from a safety perspective. For if not they well be the people having to answer their decision.

[deadsquirrel]

[QUOTE=Andrew Palmer]Here is a point to think on.

Coventry Stadium hire the BARC Midlands Rescue Unit for its short oval racing. They Stock Rod, Stock Cars, F1 and F2, plus others. Last year the unit removed a roof of one car in which the driver was trapped. A similar incident at Wimbeldon required the fire service!

You make my point for me - thanks!

Originally Posted by Andrew Palmer

I agree with Ian the people that organise and govern any event must be satisfied that they can ensure that the meeting is covered adequately from a safety perspective. For if not they well be the people having to answer their decision.

But their decision affects others - who may not get the chance to answer. I stopped marshalling short circuit ovals when it became clear I would not be able to stand up in a coroners court and defend the way the events were run.