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27 Mar 2017, 11:53 (Ref:3721847) | #1 | ||
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Sauber
I was slightly surprised during yesterday's coverage of the GP when Ben Edwards remarked on this being Sauber's 25th anniversary in F1 and DC remarked that it had been "25 years of mediocracy". Ignore for a moment that "mediocracy" isn't a word, it just struck me as rather harsh (unusually so for DC). It's true Sauber have only one race victory to their name, but the sport needs mid-grid teams and Sauber are now one of the longest-established teams in the sport. Was Coulthard being unfair?
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27 Mar 2017, 12:42 (Ref:3721858) | #2 | |||
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Unless he was passing a comment on the whole of F1? Or the Ferrari bonuses in recent years? |
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27 Mar 2017, 18:10 (Ref:3721929) | #3 | |
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Sauber have had some good seasons, even outside of the BMW era. Think 2001, when the combined efforts of Heidfeld and Raikkonen got them 4th in the constructors
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27 Mar 2017, 19:18 (Ref:3721951) | #4 | ||
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did he say mediocracy or mediocrity?
regardless, as a one time supporter of Sauber, they used to be the epitome of an underdog team, often punching above their weight class, with an owner who loved racing so for sure if applied to that Sauber team, DC's comments are unfair. that was a truly class racing operation. however, Kaltenborn's tenure as team principle has not been good. mediocre, or whatever derivation of that word, feels like an apt description. |
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27 Mar 2017, 21:55 (Ref:3721985) | #5 | ||
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Every year the motorsport press trot out the story about how Sauber has the best wind tunnels in the world... and every year (of recent note) the car shows up with few brands on it, and usually is towards the back of the field.
In comparison to their sportscar heritage, Sauber have underperformed massively. The difference of course is budget, but it isn't likely the only distinction. |
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27 Mar 2017, 22:31 (Ref:3721991) | #6 | ||
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The FIA should not allow a manufacturer to supply this engine onto the grid. The homologation of the engines would prevent the manufacturers supplying their customers with out of date and out of spec rubbish! Last edited by wnut; 27 Mar 2017 at 22:47. |
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27 Mar 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3721993) | #7 | |||
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Woulda coulda shoulda... They are the underdog team to support & cheer for.. but you can't help but wonder whether a metric shedload of $$ would make any difference at all... |
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27 Mar 2017, 23:12 (Ref:3721996) | #8 | |
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Agreed, there has probably been considerable staff movement, but, with no engine their work is impossible to assess.
Their drivers are also a problem, Giovanazzi would apparently have made Q2 if not for a small mistake late in his final lap. Bit of a worry when it is the first time he has driven the car! Just can't answer how good the car is? |
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28 Mar 2017, 11:32 (Ref:3722136) | #9 | ||
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Sauber looked more competitive than they did during testing.
A shed load of money would enable them to move up the grid, I'm sure. But the ridiculous cost of the engines have led them to be where they are, and the podiums finishes that Perez brought seem a very long time ago now. F1 needs to look after the likes of Force India and Sauber. |
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28 Mar 2017, 12:18 (Ref:3722142) | #10 | ||
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Just for the sake of discussion - why should Force India and Sauber be afforded any protection from the F1 seniority?
I wonder would the same have been said in 2005 say of BAR and Minardi? The demise of BAR and Minardi has led to Mercedes and STR on the grid - I don't see an argument that either of those is bad for the sport. {for the record, I would not like to see the demise of either Sauber or FI, but teams have come and gone since the birth of F1} |
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28 Mar 2017, 12:50 (Ref:3722149) | #11 | ||
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I think a stronger argument is not that Sauber or Force India need to be afforded any particular protection but that F1 needs to look at why smaller teams are struggling.
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28 Mar 2017, 12:58 (Ref:3722152) | #12 | |||
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Do you mean specifically financially, or performance wise? |
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28 Mar 2017, 13:21 (Ref:3722158) | #13 | |
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28 Mar 2017, 13:22 (Ref:3722159) | #14 | |
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We can't afford to lose anymore teams in F1, at least an interview on Channel 4 wiht one of the new executives of the sport seems to suggest they are intent on getting more teams in F1, which the sooner it happens the better
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28 Mar 2017, 14:33 (Ref:3722179) | #15 | ||
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28 Mar 2017, 15:30 (Ref:3722193) | #16 | ||
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F1 has lost ALL the new teams that arrived int he last few years. Force India and Sauber have rumored financial troubles. So did Lotus / Enstone until Renault stepped in.
My throwaway remark that F1 needs to look after these teams, means that the dodgy deals to give significantly more prize / travel money to the big guns should be reviewed especially in light to the increased engine costs thanks in no small part to this being driven though by the engine manufacturers (and not the small teams themselves). If you lose Sauber or Force India, there is no guarantee that another Mercedes and Red Bull will step in to ensure we have a healthy sized grid. The F1 grid is as short in numbers as I can ever remember it. |
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28 Mar 2017, 21:59 (Ref:3722282) | #17 | ||
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Then we go back to the fabled 3 cars per team option
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29 Mar 2017, 08:58 (Ref:3722378) | #18 | ||
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Has Sauber driver Pascal Wehrlein blown any chance he had at a Mercedes drive? He copped a bit over the w'end for pulling out of the GP. I too believe PW should've driven. Pulling out of the GP hasn't, and will not go down well with the old school boys in pitlane.
Some stories are still mentioning Ferrari making a deal with Kaltenborn to get Giovanni in the seat for the race as the real reason. A bunch of $$'s worth apparently. And it worked. Ferrari's investment paid off handsomely. |
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31 Mar 2017, 13:33 (Ref:3722796) | #19 | |
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The latest rumours are Honda supplying engines to Sauber in 2018. I can see why, considering their Ferrari engines are out of date. The question is, would it be easier to develop the Honda engine with two teams instead of one?
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31 Mar 2017, 16:51 (Ref:3722826) | #20 | |||
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And bearing that financial constraint at Sauber in mind, is it really going to help Honda develop their power-units? |
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31 Mar 2017, 17:28 (Ref:3722837) | #21 | ||
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31 Mar 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3722873) | #22 | |
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They still have a great facility that could be ramped up again with Honda cash and as a more low key team could be a good place for Honda to develop out of the spotlight.
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1 Apr 2017, 00:08 (Ref:3722930) | #23 | ||
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1 Apr 2017, 00:41 (Ref:3722931) | #24 | ||
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please be nonsense, please be nonsense... |
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1 Apr 2017, 07:12 (Ref:3722950) | #25 | ||
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