What is a SUPERCAR?

[JAG]

I recall reading an interview with Stephan Ratel were he stated that 'supercars', basically carbon chassied Zondas, Enzos, Masarati 'MC', Carrera GT etc., plus the Saleen S7R would be subject to stricter 'supercar' regs in FIA GTs (and presumably LM).

From what I could make out this basically prevents the manufactuer from making modifications such as wider wheel arches, changing engine location etc. that cars such as the more regular 575GTC have.

The theory apparently being that these 'supercars' are already built to be the ultimate road/track car, and in some instances such as the Saleen and Masarati are out and race cars, which cost a fortune and do not need these modifications for performance reasons, or to increase the already big cost of producing a GTS 'Supercar'.

Can anyone shed any light on this situation.

[gttouring]

Supercars have 4 doors and V8s in front and race in Australia

[JAG]

bump

[veeten]

ouch!

[PascaLM]

Supercars couldn also be defined with the number of produced units : less than 30 or 20.

[Adam43]

I'm fairly sure a 3 series beemer isn't.

[JAG]

Originally posted by PascaLM
Supercars couldn also be defined with the number of produced units : less than 30 or 20.

It is puzzling how they define what a 'supercar' is.

It seems any car that is produced in numbers of less than, say, 1000 could be considered a supercar. e.g. Carrera GT, Enzo etc.

Cars like the 575 and Viper are produced in much greater numbers and therefore are less specialised and suitable for racing than the 'supercars'.

[veeten]

well, when was the last time you actually saw a Toyota GT-One or a Nissan R390 GT on the road, muchales a McLaren F1 GTR, Porsche 911 GT1, or even a Mercedes CLK-GTR on your usual roadway?

Not too often, and this was a time when the whole "internet commerce" thing was just starting, which would create quite a few people that could afford such "toys". As for the rest of us poor schleps we could only dream about them, outside of the lucky number of those that got to watch them in their racing flesh.

[JAG]

I would class the F1 GTR differntly to the CLK-LM, 911 GT1 etc. as it was at least based on a genuine road like the new generation of supercars such as the ENZO and Carrera GT.

[Liz]

Supercar was a childrens' TV show in the fifties which starred puppets.

Supercar
Carlton / A&E
1960 / b&w / 1:33 flat full frame / 39 x 25 min. / Street Date May 27, 2003 / 99.95
Starring voices of Sylvia Anderson , David Graham, George Murcell, Cyril Shaps
Special Effects Derek Meddings
Art Direction Reg Park
Original Music Barry Gray
Written by Martin & Hugh Woodhouse, Gerry & Sylvia Anderson
Produced by Gerry Anderson
Directed by David Elliott, Allan Pattillo, Desmond Saunders, Bill Harris




Reviewed by Glenn Erickson

The first sci-fi themed tv show from the (then un-married) team of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson, Supercar is tame compared to later series, but still charmingly naive and technically sophisticated. Production standards like this simply weren't seen in 1960 children's programming, which made this peppy half-hour program a sure bet for syndication. The Anderson team's later series, most notably Thunderbirds, had color and lavish special effects, but when this show hit local American TV stations, kids couldn't get enough of it.

Carlton's fancy boxed set doesn't seem so pricey when one realizes it contains almost 19 hours of programming. There's also a couple of nicely-done extras.


Synopsis:


Pilot Mike Mercury (voice: Graydon Gould) uses Supercar, the brainchild of Professor Popkiss (voice: George Murcell, Cyril Shaps), for research, rescues and various adventures. The flying vehicle also becomes a submarine. Helping are the eccentric Professor Beaker (voice: David Graham), young Jimmy Gibson (voice: Sylvia Anderson) and his pet monkey, Mitch (voice: David Graham).

Our rural reception was so poor in 1961, I'm not sure if we could see the wires suspending the marionettes, but the quasi live-action thrills of Supercar were just what 9 year olds wanted to see. The photography, sets and miniatures were all done at a high level of quality, so watching the show was like stepping into a fantasy world made of department store toy displays ... it was exciting seeing a futuristic vehicle soaring through the clouds.

The characters (did I read somewhere that they were caricatures of real actors, or was that just later?) always seemed a bit strange, not so much that they were suspended on wires, but that their facial expressions never changed from those agreeable smiles, even when they were threatened with their lives, or dispensing bad news. Mike Mercury is a bushy-browed stalwart hero with two technoheads helping him out, one a little-old-winemaker German type, and the other a dotty Brit. In the very first episode they iron out some of their invention's wrinkles (the series tends to be very fastidious in details) and add young Jimmy and his pet monkey Mitch to the mix. Jimmy's a typical identification figure that kids in the audience wished would go away, but Mitch was a refreshingly stupid ape who mostly got in trouble. As TV was overloaded with Lassie-like genius animals, this was considered a step up.

The villains in the adventure episodes could be thieves or other troublemakers, but most of the time Mike Mercury's nemesis was a gross Sydney Greenstreet clone called Masterspy. He and his scurvy assistant Zarin both seemed to be of middle Eastern origin, often dealing with Arab chieftains when not just trying to steal Supercar or blow it up. Their plans naturally backfire.

Supercar is chiefly a marionette show, with special effects interludes. The puppetry is excellent, given the stylistic choice to not bother to hide wires. There are many shots where the characters could have been controlled from below, but realism isn't the big idea here. Unlike most of the later series, all the characters are seen walking around, which is kind of a plus even when it isn't very believable ... it's better than the dreamlike situation in Thunderbirds where a device seems to exist to eliminate the need for characters to move just a step or two, or to climb into a cockpit. The dialogue is basically good, if rather humorless. Again, this was a nice contrast to competing kid's shows, which were already piped with laugh tracks and inane comedy.

So now you know!

[billnchristy]

I would say over 500hp, over 200k, space capsule like body work and at least half the panels made of carbon fibre, kevlar or some other space age composite...

that and the 4 door australian cars of course...

[krt917]

I always think of supercars as having to be mid-engined, but I don't know why!

In this instance, isn't it just a way for the FIA and Ratel to put restrictions on the new cars so that:
a) They don't turn up and immediately make everything else obsolute;
b) They don't get developed to the point where they are too expensive for privateers to run and develop competitively?

[FIRE]

Originally posted by Liz
Supercar was a childrens' TV show in the fifties which starred puppets.



So now you know!

[JAG]

Read an interview with Ratel who said that GTS are classed in 2 categories, 'Supercar' and 'GT'.

Supercars only need to have 25 road going versions e.g. Saleen/Masarati. Less modifications are allowed to the bodywork etc. as these cars are either purpose built race cars or ultimate road cars suitable for racing such as the Enzo/Carrera GT.

A 'GT' car is something like a 550 or 575 that is produced in signifiacnt numbers, i.e. over 1000. These cars are allowed many bodywork modifications and other mods to make them suitable for racing.

The rules are aimed at keeping the performance of the 2 types of car similar and reducing the cost/technical challenge of making a GTS car out of the 'Supercars'.

[Fab]

Definition of a Supercar : a car that I never could afford !

More seriously (but without beeing able to give a real serious definition) : a rare and fast sportscar, so a mix of what is described above...

[Chevyguy]

A "supercar" costs $250,000 American minimum, and has no trunk space whatsoever. They are designed only to go fast and are not practical. No, a Suzuki Sidekick is not a supercar.

[BillandLara]

And I thought my little Midget was a supercar for having got me to Le Mans and back this year...

Sorry irrelevant I know, but you can see the strings!

[cybersdorf]

A supercar is an excellent automobile.

[917Addicted]

A perfect Supercar is a German-bent 962 that was homologated as a GT back in 1994

(With this type of comments I'm sure to get banned by Aysedasi )

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by veeten
well, when was the last time you actually saw a Toyota GT-One or a Nissan R390 GT on the road, muchales a McLaren F1 GTR, Porsche 911 GT1, or even a Mercedes CLK-GTR on your usual roadway?

I don't particularly want to see them on the road.

But I damned well enjoyed seeing them on the track.......

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by 917Addicted
A perfect Supercar is a German-bent 962 that was homologated as a GT back in 1994

(With this type of comments I'm sure to get banned by Aysedasi )

The ultimate rule-bender. That certainly was no supercar - not in my eyes, anyway.

(And I am definitely old enough to remember Mike Mercury..... )

[Garp]

Don't think a 550 maranello, enzo , zonda, viper are any different. If the GT manufacturers still produce front engined cars of steel. That's their problem. Racing should stimulate manufacturers in making better (modern, advanced) cars not in converting old fasioned cars in supercars.

Sorry for maranello, viper etc.

Their so 50 years ago!

[JAG]

The be homologated as a Supercar in FIA GT you need to build 25 cars. How many do you need to build to be homologated as a regular GTS car such as a Ferrari 550. 100, 500, 1000?

[pitviper]

jag...if i'm not mistaken, one of the original official differentiations between supercar and otherwise for the FIA was to be the price point of the road car. i believe it was quoted that cars with a "road" sticker price of $250k or higher would be classified as "supercars" and therefore would be held to the appropriate regulations. the carbon tub issue could also be one of the issues as far as the rules themselves go...

pit

[917Addicted]

Here we go again

Sorry for being pessimist, but it seems nobody knows what a Supercar really is... Even Ratel and the FIA guys. If they are not quick to answer quickly and smartly this answer, then it might get to a similar point as with FIA-GT (1997).

My 2eurocents though (and I know the supercar defenders will not agree with me)