Favourite touring car race format

**FIRE** · 29 Nov 2007, 19:37 (Ref:2078156)

Currently a WTCC event has two races of 50 km (around 20-25 minutes). Most people here on Ten-Tenths (and other forums) don't like this format because of the short races. Some people even don't take WTCC serious because of the current race length.

Personal I would like to see they increase the race length with 10 minutes. This means a bit higher running costs but also more air time for the manufacturers and more time to show the cars in the mid and backfield.

@ Rene de Boer. Do you know why the WTCC races are only 20-25 minutes? What's the official reason from WTCC and/or manufacturers?

duke_toaster · 29 Nov 2007, 19:42 (Ref:2078161)

I'd go for the BTCC format of three races. Maybe parc ferme they cars between races and have a mandatory tyre stop in race 2 (but allow refuelling between races) ...

Ellmau · 29 Nov 2007, 19:47 (Ref:2078164)

I voted for increased WTCC format, but I think 35-40 minutes would be best

jab · 29 Nov 2007, 21:32 (Ref:2078221)

Voted 3 races like BTCC, though I liked the old Super Tourer format of sprint and feature + pit stops. But I think the current format produces more action

TIMELORD · 29 Nov 2007, 22:10 (Ref:2078242)

I liked the 80s when the European Touring Car races were 500kms (4 hours maximum). They also had the Spa 24 Hours.

Save the sprint formats for the National series - the International events would be better being Endurance based (The Nurburgring 24 Hours would be a great addition to their calendar!).

jab · 29 Nov 2007, 22:18 (Ref:2078254)

I know I'm probably going to get a bit of stick, especially from the elders, but I don't see why touring cars should be a total endurance series. 1 endurance race a season as a treat would be great. But not a whole championship

I've been following touring cars (the BTCC in particular) since the Super Touring days and I believe that you get a lot more excitement out of sprints (even feature races) than endurance racing. I think the endurance races should be left to sportscars and GTs

werner · 29 Nov 2007, 22:26 (Ref:2078267)

I voted for the increased WTCC-format. But the best thing would be a season with different formats throughout the season. For instance the current format in the most races, but on longer tracks like macaou and monza a 100km race as the second race for double points and an endurancerace at the nuernburgring or bathurst for quadruple points.
BTW most races are not flagged after a certain amount of time, but after a certain amount of km's. (50 in WTCC and BTCC, 160 in DTM, STCC I don't know)

TIMELORD · 29 Nov 2007, 22:37 (Ref:2078277)

I think that proving a car's reliability should be a part of an international championship event, as well as driver ability (which is nonetheless important). I'd like to see the international series as the main arena and proving ground for the manufacturers, with the national series acting as feeder championships for the drivers. This wouldn't have to detract from the importance of any of the national championships, and wouldn't preclude any drivers or works teams from competing in both national and international races.

I'd peg international Touring Car races at 500kms, but the real Endurance events would be for the Prototype and GT sports cars (1000kms and 24 hour events).

redshoes · 29 Nov 2007, 22:55 (Ref:2078288)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Do you know why the WTCC races are only 20-25 minutes? What's the official reason from WTCC and/or manufacturers?

Not sure about official reason but I suspect TV coverage is a factor. Any longer and producers start to think about ad breaks.

racer69 · 30 Nov 2007, 03:01 (Ref:2078413)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMELORD

I liked the 80s when the European Touring Car races were 500kms (4 hours maximum). They also had the Spa 24 Hours.

Save the sprint formats for the National series - the International events would be better being Endurance based (The Nurburgring 24 Hours would be a great addition to their calendar!).

I'm with you, agree totally. That was also the format of the first WTCC back in 1987 (bar the Bathurst 1000km & Spa 24 Hours)

Valenok · 30 Nov 2007, 08:53 (Ref:2078500)

I'd like to see more racing distance at racing weekend, but in variuos formats. For example, 150-160k in 1-, 2- and 3-races format, depending on track: 1 23lap race in Spa, 2 13-14lap races in Monza and Makau, 3 races in Pau. Something like that

werner · 30 Nov 2007, 11:51 (Ref:2078616)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Not sure about official reason but I suspect TV coverage is a factor. Any longer and producers start to think about ad breaks.

Do not worry, they run add-breaks already during the races...

duke_toaster · 30 Nov 2007, 17:36 (Ref:2078875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner

BTW most races are not flagged after a certain amount of time, but after a certain amount of km's. (50 in WTCC and BTCC, 160 in DTM, STCC I don't know)

Nope, it's a fixed number of laps that isn't always 50km and it isn't always the same length in the DTM either, at some tracks it's less.

**FIRE** · 30 Nov 2007, 18:18 (Ref:2078905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I'd go for the BTCC format of three races. Maybe parc ferme they cars between races and have a mandatory tyre stop in race 2 (but allow refuelling between races) ...

I like this format (except for mandatory pitstop) too but I think it's less suited for live TV coverage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner

BTW most races are not flagged after a certain amount of time, but after a certain amount of km's. (50 in WTCC and BTCC, 160 in DTM, STCC I don't know)

I know but I have put the amount of minutes in the poll because it's more clear how long the races are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

Not sure about official reason but I suspect TV coverage is a factor. Any longer and producers start to think about ad breaks.

Problaby TV coverage has something to do with it. Sometimes Eurosport starts live coverage 10 or 15 minutes before the green flag. Why not start broadcasting 5 minutes before green flag and increase race with 10 minutes? I assume most people are more interested in race action than coverage of the grid (except maybe for the grid girls

).

Speedworx · 2 Dec 2007, 12:16 (Ref:2079842)

I love the BTCC format. 3 short races in one day.

PorscheFanNo1 · 2 Dec 2007, 13:54 (Ref:2079904)

Interesting that the STCC format only got 2 votes, seeing as the organisers and especially Flash seems to think its exactly that what makes the races so good. Personally I hate the format in STCC and would like to see it go, the sooner the better.
I voted for increased WTCC format, which I'd like to see STCC take after too.

**FIRE** · 2 Dec 2007, 15:17 (Ref:2079935)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

Interesting that the STCC format only got 2 votes, seeing as the organisers and especially Flash seems to think its exactly that what makes the races so good. Personally I hate the format in STCC and would like to see it go, the sooner the better.
I voted for increased WTCC format, which I'd like to see STCC take after too.

The DTM format got no votes so far......You would assume DTM had done some research what people want to see.

**touringlegend** · 2 Dec 2007, 15:39 (Ref:2079942)

Trackside I reckon the 3 race format of the BTCC is superb. They are long enough to be entertaining, and short enough if it's a bit of a proccesion. It's also a bit of great thinking that in general they are at the start, middle and end of the day, it gets people in early, whereas the old 2 race BTCC format used to be one after lunch then one at the end of the day. And if you were in early a lot of time watching what could be boring support races.

Ellmau · 2 Dec 2007, 20:25 (Ref:2080061)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

The DTM format got no votes so far......You would assume DTM had done some research what people want to see.

Neither did the WTCC format... quite remarkable...

Go_For_Pole · 3 Dec 2007, 10:44 (Ref:2080507)

BTCC for me: 3 races, good compromise between sprint race fury and long race procession, nice mix of the order between races etc

**FIRE** · 4 Dec 2007, 17:00 (Ref:2081490)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellmau

Neither did the WTCC format... quite remarkable...

After reading many comments about the WTCC format here on Ten-Tenths it's not a surprise for me.

flor · 4 Dec 2007, 17:09 (Ref:2081497)

i would like to see two 100km races, pretty much like in the old dtm

jonners · 4 Dec 2007, 17:29 (Ref:2081518)

Yeah right - it'd be hilarious to see how long the whole super tourer field would last in a 4 hour enduro...

JMeissner · 4 Dec 2007, 19:34 (Ref:2081589)

They lasted quite long in the Bathurst 1000 km races back in 97 and 98...

werner · 4 Dec 2007, 20:51 (Ref:2081629)

In the Spa 24h-race there also used to be supertourers.

View Poll Results: What's your favourite touring car format?
2 Races of 20-25 min (WTCC format)	0	0%
2 Races of 30-35 min (increased WTCC format)	15	19.48%
3 Races of 20-25 min (BTCC format)	30	38.96%
1 Race of 60-70 min, 2 pitstops (DTM format)	2	2.60%
1 Race of 35-40 min, 1 pitstop (STCC format)	6	7.79%
Sprint race of 25 min & main race of 50 min	10	12.99%
Sprint & endurance races (V8 Supercars)	9	11.69%
Other format without pitstops	1	1.30%
Other format with pitstops	3	3.90%
Other format	1	1.30%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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