Rover 3500S Sedan Racer

[nsbrit]

I have recently acquired an early 1970s Rover 3500S.
I am condidering converting it to a vintage racing car for competition here in the US.
Was this car used in Sedan racing in the UK in the 70s?
I know the later V8 Rovers were raced, but I have never seen anything about the model I have.
Who could I contact for information for racing this car?

Thanks,
Tom Whitfield
nsbrit@att.net

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to the forum nsbrit.

AFAIK the Rover P6 3500S was raced in the UK in period as a modified saloon. It had all of its bolt on panels made from fibreglass. Can't remember the name of the chap that ran it but I know a man that does. I will "pm" you with his name and number.

I believe Andrew Kitson may also recall the car and I'm sure a few of the guys on this forum will be able to help. (He may even have a pic or two).

As to your current needs, it would depend on what regulations you are running to. Over here there is a chap who races with the CTCRC and Top Hat 70's saloons who runs a P6 3500 and that is built to FIA Group 1 regulations. That means no body mods, standard carburation (in terms of numbers not size) and full race engines etc. You can get those regs from the CTCRC site at www.csccgb.co.uk. Look for the pre 74 Post Historic regs.

I think the car may have problems with its inboard rear brakes but it seems to go quite well.

[cavvy]

nsbrit, refer to www.autopics.com.au & search for Rover &/or Jim Smith. The Camel Rover came to Aus from the old dart - I understand it is being rebuilt from nothing at this time.

[Morris 1100]

As I understand it Leyland had two cars built for touring car racing and then they pulled the pin on the project. One of the cars came to Aus for Jim Smith to race.

I have a magazine story someware about the cars.

[Dan Rear]

The name Roy Pierrepoint rings a bell with a Special Sallon P6. I'll check my records and post again later.

[Peter Mallett]

That's the bloke! I believe one of his cars has been discovered recently.

[Dan Rear]

Peter, I saw it win at Mallory in June 1970. Entered by "WJ Shaw" driven by Roy Pierpoint. Apparently it had a 4500cc motor, and won from Mick Hill's 3.8 'Janglia', Pat Mannion's 1.7 Escort, Gordon Line's 1.3 Mini, Frank Didsbury's 1.6 Anglia, and RA Bushells 1.6 Escort. Great days indeed !!!

[Peter Mallett]

Yep.

When Special Saloons were just that.

[nsbrit]

Thanks guys !!
I just found this site, it is very similar to the one I frequent for Production car racing here in the US.
I just got this car from my best freind who lives in Hawkinge, just outside Dover. We import older series Land Rovers and other cars to the US and I sell them here.
Thank you for all the information, keep it coming when you find more. We vintage race a MGB now and we are also in the process of starting constuction of a Datsun Fairlady 2000 for vintage competition. But the idea of a big FIRE Breathing Rover V8 sounds too good to pass up, plus never having seen one in the US makes it even better.
Again, thanks everyone.
Tom Whitfield
PS I did NOT vote for Bush

[Peter Mallett]

Tom,

We don't just talk about historics, There are other forums (fora?) too.

Take a look around, there's one for racers (like you), plus one for track info etc. Of course there's IRL and F1, Cart, touring cars etc.

[rbs]

This car was built by 2 ex Alan Mann Racing mechanics. I forget their names. It was built for Bill Shaw Racing and fitted with a 360+ BHP engine that was out of John Coundley's Mclaren Oldsmobile. 4303cc of Traco power.The problem at Mallory Park was the standard Rover 2000 gearbox which was replaced eventually with an American sourced gearbox.
The car was sold to Alec Poole and raced mainly in Ireland.

Rover also built a car for the Marathon de la Route at Nurburgring,Roy Pierpoint, Clive Baker and Roger Enever driving. The car led at the start of the race and held a lead of 3 laps at one point. I do not remember the rest of the story.

[rbs]

The engine in the car was built by Mathwall Engineering when RP drove the car.

[Andrew Kitson]

Photo here from our archive.
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...443#post469443

[Andrew Kitson]

Tried to link the actual post. Won't let me!
You have to scroll back to page 1 and find post from racing fxgt Rover1.jpg

[d-b]

hi there

don't know if your interested but i have found some information on the v8 p6 racers.

it's in a copy of the book=
THE ROVER V8 ENGINE (2ND EDITION) by DAVID HARDCASTLE
published by HAYNES PUBLISHING
ISBN 0 85429 961 0
(pages 81-84)
there are also 5 pictures of the shaw/pierpoint car

it says 2 were built (JXC806/808D) in 1970

JXC808D was run by BILL SHAW & ROY PIERPOINT & developed by JOMOCO RACING,BROOKWOOD,SURREY
the engine was called a TRACO-ROVER but was a TRACO-OLDSMOBILE prepared by MATHWALL ENGINEERING,COBHAM,SURREY
engine was 4.3litres/360hp
body was mostly aluminium with fibreglass wheel arches

JXC806D basically the same but it competed in the 1971 NURBURGRING 86 HOUR MARATHON DE LA ROUTE,leading for 16 hrs before retiring
this car afterwards went to AUSTRALIA (1971?)where it raced before being restored

hope this might be of some interest

d-b

[Peter Mallett]

Like your sig d-b.

[d-b]

hi there
thanks Peter
I'm afraid I am a complete Rover SD1 & Capri nut
I got in to them watching the Slick 50 Class A racing
1988-1996
loved them ever since & always will
still watch them eg. group 1/classic thunder etc
hope they never stop racing

d-b

[Peter Mallett]

You might like to look at my website then.

[Al Weyman]

I think as I recollect the major problem with the P6 was the odd Di-jon (sorry if spelt wrong) rear axle arrangment. I have used these cars on the road and they did tend to nose on a bit (understeer)as I remember. With the event of the SD1 with a more conventional rear axle layout and McPherson strut front suspension the car really took off in competition.

[cavvy]

A feature on the Rover in Australia was published in a recent issue of Australian Muscle Car. Paraphrasing the article, it was built from a brand new shell in 1970 in British Leyland's competition dept at Abingdon as a prototype for a homologation run of 1000 high performance FIA Gr2 touring car versions of the then current alloy block Rover 3500 V8. It had flared guards, wide Minilite mag wheels,a Muncie 4 speed & a Traco modified, quad Weber 4.3 litre engine.
The car raced only once in Europe, the 84 hour Marathon at Nurburgring, reaching a top speed of 176mph. It came to Australia at the end of 1970 & raced in 1971.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Al Weyman
I think as I recollect the major problem with the P6 was the odd Di-jon (sorry if spelt wrong) rear axle arrangment.

De Dion! It was unusual in having the sliding joint, necessary to accomodate angular movement in the driveshafts, in the axle rather than the driveshafts, which resulted in track changes, albeit small, with suspension movement.

[D-Type]

I think the Repco engine was based on the same Buick block as the Rover. If so, some bits might be transferable (if you could lay your hands on any).

[Al Weyman]

Why bother sourcing old parts there has been a lot of develoments on these old engines in the UK and tuning parts are easily sourced. There are even recast heads awailable now I believe as the breathing of the original heads was a weak spot in the design.

[275 GTB-4]

I have been posting on AtlasF1 (Shhh)....hoping to help out a friend who owns the ex-Alec Poole Rover P6B V8 Traco.

He was after the Chassis number of JXC806D which was imported by Leyland Australia and raced by James Smith in 1971 and later became the Camel Rover. The log book has been lost.

Huw on Atlas said.....The ex press car (JXC808D) was the one used for rallycross before becoming the first prototype racer built by Morgan and Rose, fitted with a 4.3 Traco Olds. this was sold to Alec Poole who raced it in Ireland. This car was red.

After Lord Stokes closed the UK Comps Dept in 1970 Sydney's Warwick Farm racing circuit promoter Geoff Sykes approached BL Australia about the possibility of bringing the car and
Roy Pierpont down under, but the deal fell through. The parent company then offered one of the two racing Rovers which had been built for sale.
Jim Smith went to England and bought the car with financial assistance from BL Australia subsidiary. His purchase included both Rover V8 factory racing engines. This car was Blue, ie the second car.

"(the other works P6B racer - the prototype - had a standard V8 installed
and was sent to the US for display purposes)."

In 1972 Smith got sponsorship from Shell and Camel Filter Cigarettes and the P6 was painted yellow with a 550 bhp 5 litre Repco Formula 5000 unit . Smith sold the car to the Jarrett brothers who sold it in 1976 to David Craig and changed from yellow to blue. The Rover was severely damaged in a garage fire.

In December 1984 it was sold through Auto Action magazine to a Sydney enthusiast, but there the trail goes quiet......
However this is the Marathon de la Route car, the second one. I don't believe this is the Alec Poole car, and I'm not sure No1 went to the States straight from Leyland, suggesting maybe that there was three............
So what did Alec do with his car when he finished with it?

Paul wrote.....Mick, Graham Howard wrote a comprehensive article on what became the Rover P6 Sports Sedan in a recent edition of Australian Muscle Car magazine. From what I can recall, Mr Baddeley (golfer Aaron's father, who went on to spanner for Mario Andretti in the States) did a lot of modifications to the Rover in the "Camel" days. I don't recall the Rover's fate.

I do recall another highly modified Rover P6 3500 from a few years back that was used in classic rallying by Ron Barr-Smith (I think that's his name.)

I'm pretty sure I have a feature on the other "works" Rover (red in colour) from the long defunct English magazine "Sporting Cars" (back in the early '80s.)

Present Day...Oct 2005

My friend Rob Harrison now has the car and would love to locate the CAMS Log Book which is missing. There is some controversy with the car so far as eligibility is concerned.

If anyone knows anything about the Rover or its documentation please PM me and I will put you in touch with (no doubt) an extremely grateful British Leyland/Rover enthusiast

[terryobeirne]

I recall an ex UK car racing here in australia in the early-mid 70's. it was horrific . no-one could tame it. it raced as a sports-sedan cause the mods done were illegal for all other touring car classes at the time. i also believe it is being restored form virtually nothing. It got some press here in OZ, a few years back. I turned down a pile of TRACO engine parts in NZ a few years back,. it seems a lot of that stuff ended up there