Formula S5000 Australia

[MCWB]

New Aussie $240K 570 hp V8 single seater series? Yum. Will the turnout be bigger than F4?

http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/03/31/...gory-launched/

http://autoaction.com.au/formula-thu...04021419653102

[chunterer]

I thought this was an April fool but it got announced yesterday!!

Looks good fun if it goes ahead.

More power than grip.... that should be the raison d'etre of any big single seater category.

[olev]

I can see it working and attracting european drivers in the off-season, like the TRS does.

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I thought this was an April fool but it got announced yesterday!!

I have my doubts... That kind of airbox has not been allowed in formula racing (at least F1) since 1976.
It could be April 1st when the note was released in Australia.

[mountainstar]

For 2 decades I have asked why can't we have a simple, straightforward formula series with V8 power? Not everyone has the interest, pre teen age or cash to be on the Formula 1 junior formula puppy mill.

Hopefully this works out.

[Formulahistory]

Nice tove this series back
But the problem is the location. In Australia und New Zealand many formula series are struggling
Not Toyota Racing Series, but especially in Australia.

[BudLightJaguar]

Which type of crankshaft will they use with the V8? Cross-plane? Makes more sense, since the displacement is 5 litres.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

Which type of crankshaft will they use with the V8? Cross-plane? Makes more sense, since the displacement is 5 litres.

Yep, crossplane. The engine is available in flatplane but you introduce issues which require money to rectify with that setup, plus you lose the meaty sound they are after.

Originally Posted by Mekola

I have my doubts... That kind of airbox has not been allowed in formula racing (at least F1) since 1976.
It could be April 1st when the note was released in Australia.

Nope, it's all legit.

[Armco Bender]

Will be interesting to see if F5000 translates to a modern chassis.In the '70s there was limited aero,no ground effects and slick tyres,they used to roar and slide around.
Could be a let down if thier just another class of car going around with little point of difference from the other current formula's.

[V8 Fireworks]

We are still waiting on this class (now called S5000) to release it's calendar and final-issue chassis, which now takes the form of a halo-equipped 2018 Ligier JS Formula 3 tub fitted with the Coyote V8, local Hollinger gearbox and larger tyres and wings. https://www.motorsport.com/au/genera...00-car/374261/

Originally Posted by Ospi

flatplane but you introduce issues which require money to rectify with that setup, plus you lose the meaty sound they are after.

Interestingly, you seem to get some of the throaty sound back by fitting a X-pipe to a flatplane V8. For instance, this Ferrari: https://youtu.be/tap6r-SH9tw?t=353

So it wouldn't be out of the question for the class to switch to a lightweight 116kg Judd racing V8 (instead of the 195kg Coyote production car engine) and get the "thunder" back by a combination of X-pipe and/or unequal length headers (such as what the Shelby GT350 uses, and why it rumbles somewhat even though it has a flatplane V8).

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Could be a let down if thier just another class of car going around with little point of difference from the other current formula's.

It has a point of difference: the production-based V8 engine, that is both durable and relatively affordable! Quite a contrast to the 1.6L and 2.0L with or without turbo engines used in other affordable open-wheel classes.

The compromise, of course, is that the engine is very heavy compared to a V8 engine designed specifically for racing (like the Mechachrome GP2 engine, or Honda or Toyota IRL & Formula Nippon engines etc).

[Armco Bender]

Elvis might return sooner than this class ever turns a wheel.

[GCCheddaris]

How many cars have been sold ? As a point of difference open it up to any local racing car manufacturer ie to race against one another !

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

How many cars have been sold ?

No information on that, but at least one car has been delivered and had an engine installed for testing. Don't know if it's actually hit the track, but given that this happened in September, I would hope it has.

As a point of difference open it up to any local racing car manufacturer ie to race against one another !

Good luck getting the local manufacturers to build cars that can meet FIA regulations(which was the entire reason for dumping both the FT5000 and Super5000 cars) AND be competitive against the Onroak chassis without being maddeningly expensive.

[GCCheddaris]

I wondered why it has taken so long for this series to get off the ground - from memory wasn't the original car unveiled on April Fool's day 2016 ? And regarding my second point , yes I do realise the likelihood of any new series to be multi-marque is less than remote . Out of interest how many Australian racing car manufacturers are still manufacturing racing cars ? I can only think of Formula Ford manufacturer Spectrum .

[Formulahistory]

lack of interests and money.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

I wondered why it has taken so long for this series to get off the ground - from memory wasn't the original car unveiled on April Fool's day 2016 ?

Yeah, which was a pretty poor idea since the result was a lot of people thought it was just a joke - and the car didn't help.

But the finalized specs were set in August and they got the first chassis shortly after. I think a 2019 debut is possible, but it will probably have an F3 Americas size grid for it's first season. (Appropriate given they chose to use the F3 Americas chassis)

[GCCheddaris]

Australia , like the UK has a Touring Car series which seems to dominate the national racing scene . Admittedly in recent years GT racing has made it's presence felt but as far as I'm aware the Australian Single Seater ladder begins with Formula Ford or Formula Four and at the moment ends with Formula Three . I didn't think Australian Formula Three was that well supported and from looking at results Formula Four ( as in the UK ) has struggled to reach double figures so where are the drivers for Formula Thunder 5000 going to come from ?

[FormulaFox]

Thinking about this in the same way as the feeder championships is probably not the best way to go. This series, if successful, would not likely be a stepping stone the way F4 and F3 are - it'd be more apt to look at it as Australia's IndyCar. (though if the FIA is smart they'd give it a fair shake on Super License points, which COULD give it a boost)

A series that sits atop it's ladder isn't going to be looking solely at the drivers in the ladder leading up to it, after all, especially a series like S5000 that is likely more attractive to tin-top driver than the majority of open-wheel series.

On top of that, as the only modern F5000-like championship in the world, there may be appeal beyond just Australian participants. I personally know more than a few drivers right here in the USA that would happily jump into an S5000 car if they got the chance.

There are two countries in the world that I think can do a modern F5000 series: The US and Australia. If S5000 succeeds I hope we do our own version over here - whether a direct copy of how Australia's doing it, or in our own form(I've got a few ideas in how to make a successful modern F5000 without having to be all one-make about it - probably wouldn't work in Australia, but it'd have a good chance up here).

[Tourer]

The prototype using the new chassis etc is due to cut some demo laps at Newcastle and then at the Adelaide Motorsport Festival: Story here

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GCCheddaris

I can only think of Formula Ford manufacturer Spectrum .

The S5000 car is also manufactured by Spectrum. However they do not have the capability to manufacture carbon tubs, so they are just fabricating all the bolt-on bits to go around an imported Ligier-Onroak Formula 3 tub.

The car also runs a local Hollinger gearbox instead of a Hewland or X-Trac, which is a nice touch.

It seems wildly unfeasible to expect more than one manufacturer, given the class is all about being as cost effective as possible! Hence the 5L lightly tuned road car engine, only making 580bhp and only costing around $20,000 (what, about 1/6th the price of a typical racing V8 engine for an open wheeler like a GP2 or Formula Nippon or 3000?).

The target price for a complete car is around $300,000... Less than a v8 supercar and half as much as a gt3 car --- potentially a good deal for a "proper" racing car, assuming there is enough series profile to attract sposorship.

The running cost will be far, far less than 1.2m euro budget for Formula 2... Albeit the car is far less sophisticated.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Elvis might return sooner than this class ever turns a wheel.

It has already done demo laps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfiDQm86SE

With very limited underbody downforce compared to other open-wheel cars (and the heavy production V8), they are going to be very slow compared to Formula 2 let alone Formula 1. Yet V8 Supercars are very slow yet quite popular, so it may not necessarily be a problem.

It seems promising. A professional class that can attract sponsorship and potentially break the dominance of the V8 Supercars series is most welcome.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

It has already done demo laps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJfiDQm86SE

I think he was referring to the actual S5000 car that will be used, not the proposed FT5000 chassis. Given the thread title, I can see how confusion may pop up.

Because of that, might I suggest moving further discussion to a more appropriate thread?

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150413

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

I think he was referring to the actual S5000 car that will be used, not the proposed FT5000 chassis.

From the bulkhead backwards, it will be exactly the same. Those old fashioned naturally aspirated rigs are rather simple things!

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

From the bulkhead backwards, it will be exactly the same.

True, but everything from the bulkhead forward is going to be different, and that's well over half the chassis.

[hondafan37]

RUBENS BARRICHELLO TO MAKE OPEN WHEEL RETURN IN S5000

https://www.s5000.com.au/f1-legend-r...turn-in-s5000/