W Series for Women

[wolfhound]

A new international series for Women drivers has been announced using F3 cars with a view to creating a path to the upper levels in motorsport.

What are its chances of succeeding? It is being backed by some well known names like David Coultard, Dave Ryan & Adrian Newey with a prize fund of $1.5million.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139285

[S griffin]

Not the first time something like this has been tried. Remember F.Women? Hopefully this series will encourage more to compete

[BertMk2]

These are F3 cars and it's an international series - so presumably the drivers will be drawn from national level single seaters and karting? I'd have thought you'd need to increase participation at those grass roots levels before you can launch a viable international series - although if it's funded seats then maybe you've got enough globally to get a decent sized grid together. Interesting to see what takeup is like.

Presumably drivers will pick up points towards a superlicence for competing and then move on to GP3, GP2 (or whatever they're called at the moment). There seems to be plenty of backing for it (is the money all from sponsorship or is the FIA pumping cash in too?).

Nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose. Will I watch - probably not. But that's because it's F3 and I don't watch that anyway unless it's supporting something I'm watching at a circuit.

[bella]

i get what they're trying to do but... surely it'd be better if there's decent financial backing from somewhere to take on the really, really good female drivers and help them, plus work on offering the young girls in karting a leg up?

i'm trying to keep an open mind on it, but i'm so very firmly against anything that treats women involved in the sport as ~inspirational and holds us aloft as special snowflakes. this just seems to have levelled up that principle.

[grantp]

This sounds very sexist to me.

Will they have to allow people who "identify as female" to take part?

What sort of medical checks will be required?

Are there a couple of potential participants who might benefit from the funding and the probable sponsorship and publicity opportunities who happen to be related or linked in some way to its promoters and sponsors?

Just wondering ...

[bella]

Originally Posted by grantp

Are there a couple of potential participants who might benefit from the funding and the probable sponsorship and publicity opportunities who happen to be related or linked in some way to its promoters and sponsors

the fact they've got a whole bunch of men to run it kind of says it all to me.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by bella

the fact they've got a whole bunch of men to run it kind of says it all to me.

Are there any women in a position to try to set this up?

I'm not saying that would not be possible at some point but are there any right now?

(And what are the chances of seeing some grid gents I wonder? )

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by grantp

Are there any women in a position to try to set this up?

I'm not saying that would not be possible at some point but are there any right now?

Exactly the point I was going to make. Which high profile female circuit racers does anyone actually propose get involved? Susie Wolff is the only one I can think of, but she has her hands full being team principal for one of the Formula E teams.

The quality of the people supporting this is very high, which is good to see.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by grantp

Are there any women in a position to try to set this up?

I'm not saying that would not be possible at some point but are there any right now?

(And what are the chances of seeing some grid gents I wonder? )

Susie Wolff runs this as well: https://www.daretobedifferent.org/


Surely a series like this would benefit from a tie-in? In my opinion this series while good intentioned will do nothing but make any backlash against female drivers louder. Someone already called it sexist above. I think it would have been a better idea to start a new team structure that covers most of the motorsport ladder from karting to GP3 or 2. Focusing on guiding female talent through that ladder.

[bella]

i think the fact there isn’t a tie-in is very telling.

there’s loads of women in management roles within the sport that you don’t see. there’s several that you do, too. the fact that none of these are involved is also telling.

[chillibowl]

the article mentions Catherine Bond Muir as the CEO of the series...not familiar with the name myself but she is a women in a leading role.

as a sports fan i like these sorts of things and materially i dont see it as any different than a series/program aimed at promoting the next regional star..this one just happens to focus on women as opposed to a 'local' talent.

seeing more and more of this in Canada, particularly in Hockey highlighted by an Olympic program but ultimately leading to the establishment of a professional N.American league.

no one anticipates that it will rival the NHL (that will takes decades), but these leagues, year by year, are drawing in larger audiences (both on TV and in arenas) which means more money, more advertisers, , more pay for the athletes, and a new demographic fan base who want to spend their money on something a little bit different then what they have been offered in the past. this is of course backed by a growing grass roots system which is looking to increase their participation levels, dues/fees, more ice time rentals, more coaches etc etc...at some point the system takes on a life of it own and becomes a viable new income source in a time where grass roots sports are experiencing a funding crisis.

the tie in is that the sport is growing imo.

[pimmy]

A series just for women who are already in the sport is a silly idea. Just imagine the complaints if a series was started just for men!

Formula Woman was OK because it was an academy which set out to get complete novices into the sport. So something like that, or an RSF type thing would be fine. The thinking behind this series is just wrong.

I've seen that Pippa Mann isn't very happy about this at all!

[Akrapovic]

Motorsport is one of the few sports where women are not at a physical disadvantage. This is one place where they should not be separate from the men. I understand the thought behind it but don't think it will provide any positive result.

At best I think this series will produce nothing interesting and at worst will have a huge negative effect on women in the sport. When a driver moves from F3 to F2 and doesn't do well immediately, the reaction is often "Well John Smith wasn't that good then". However, when Jane Smith wins the title and moves from W-Series into F2 and doesn't immediately do well, the reaction will be more along the lines of "Well women aren't that good then". At that point, the series is doing more harm than good.

As always, relevant xkcd:

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the article mentions Catherine Bond Muir as the CEO of the series...not familiar with the name myself but she is a women in a leading role.

one woman.

one.

in a series specifically FOR woman, aside from one woman (who seems to have her head in the 60s judging by the principle) its being lead by men.

Originally Posted by pimmy

Just imagine the complaints if a series was started just for men!

see that's another way of looking at it.

would it be not acceptable if someone started a series for black drivers, or asian drivers, or disabled drivers? of course it wouldn't be a thing. that's because by creating it, you're implying that the selected group need a special place to race, unthreatened by the talented white men.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bella

one woman.

one.

in a series specifically FOR woman, aside from one woman (who seems to have her head in the 60s judging by the principle) its being lead by men.

i understand your point but as a series specifically for women drivers...the breakdown of its management, owners, mechanics, or for that matter the gender breakdown of those who will watch it is a separate issue no?

all sports tend to have a multitude of categories catering to all sorts of different demographic groups and carried out in an exclusive fashion...whether its gender, nationality, region, age, talent levels, funding levels etc etc...this is a normal thing and certainly we dont question why a specific category is managed by people outside of that particular exclusive group.

could you imagine if only people aged under 13 could be hired to run a competition meant for under 13 aged drivers. an obtuse analogy for sure but it does highlight that these are separate issues imo.

[FormulaFox]

I have to side with Pippa Mann on this. This isn't like the major ball sports like the NBA or NFL where the difference in size and strength(or more accurately, the difference in how much work is required to achieve similar levels of strength) causes major issues with the idea of the guys and gals playing together. This is a sport where the guys and gals can compete head to head legitimately.

The ladies can, and should, work their way through the proper ladders like everyone else. A series like this is effectively stating that women can't hack it in the other ladders. We know this to be untrue - talent will shine through in the existing championships if given the chance.

The money would be better spent on programs to encourage more women to jump into racing karts, or even F4 cars with everyone else.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i understand your point but as a series specifically for women drivers...the breakdown of its management, owners, mechanics, or for that matter the gender breakdown of those who will watch it is a separate issue no?

this is where, if it was aligned to dare 2b different, it WOULD be about encouraging female talent in every area of the sport. it's recreating the male-dominated environment in every other form of motorsport but with female drivers - what's the point? why are they putting all this effort in to create an entirely new formula but without the blindingly obvious goal of creating somewhere where female talent can also be nurtured and supported.

i agree with formulafox - pippa mann is entirely correct about this, and there's something about the tone of it all that reminds me of the crap carmen jorda comes out with. that is, some half-arsed commercially created form of girl power, handwritten by the patriarchy, parroted by someone too daft to realise they're talking nonsense.

[S griffin]

Well it’s obvious why Carmen wanted a female only series, it was the only way she would get results. No wonder there was uproar when she got a place in the FIA for women.

Personally I prefer those like Wolff and Mann who gave it a proper go. Even if they didn’t get the results, they both proved competent in their respective series

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

The money would be better spent on programs to encourage more women to jump into racing karts, or even F4 cars with everyone else.

that i agree with. better to encourage participation at an earlier level and as time goes on, leagues like this wont be needed.

to be fair , i dont know how much of that is currently happening though.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

that i agree with. better to encourage participation at an earlier level and as time goes on, leagues like this wont be needed.

to be fair , i dont know how much of that is currently happening though.

All I know is it's not enough. There's plenty of female talent out there that aren't getting the opportunities they deserve, or even realize they're capable of. When I moved up to A-Mods at the dirt track, we let a young lady(16 years old) try out my old B-Mod. She'd never even driven a go-kart and she beat my best ever practice lap in that car. She subsequently won the track championship in the B-Mod class two years in a row before she left racing when she went to college - racing wasn't what she wanted to do full time.

She ended turning down offers for paid drives in touring championships because she saw it only as a hobby to pursue when she'd achieved her real goals. I doubt she'd have gotten those offers if she'd done the same in a women-only category.

Imagine if that talent had been tapped early in a proper competitive environment. She might be getting opportunities in NASCAR about now if such had occurred.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

that i agree with. better to encourage participation at an earlier level and as time goes on, leagues like this wont be needed.

to be fair , i dont know how much of that is currently happening though.

not a lot.

which is the REALLY frustrating bit here. if we were sat here, staring at the same formula proposal, but with a solid fund ready and available for young female racers who are talented and positive role models that still hasn't produced an increase in participation or achievement then maybe...

but no.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by bella

not a lot.

which is the REALLY frustrating bit here. if we were sat here, staring at the same formula proposal, but with a solid fund ready and available for young female racers who are talented and positive role models that still hasn't produced an increase in participation or achievement then maybe...

but no.

Agreed. The real crux of the problem as that there isn't a sufficient foundation for it. Fix that, and this could be a great idea. As things stand now, it isn't.

[Razzzor]

Are there enough woman in the sport with enough experience to join this and not have it look like a bunch of amateurs? There will be a lot of eyes on this initially and you don't really want it to be a complete shambles. Some of the more well known names like Legge, Simona (who would probably be a title contender) probably won't take part, so we could get some real fresh drivers in the field. I hope they give them a decent amount of testing first. Imagine if it's a bunch of Milka Duno's running at 70% speed of what the men are running at.



If the goal is to get at least 1 female to F1, then this series probably will really help. Because at the moment you've really got to dominate feeder series and have backing, it could be another 50 years before a female manages to do that when 99% of your competitors are male. Odds are so stacked against them. But with FIA backing the winner of this series, if they manage to finish highly in something else will help the required points to get a F1 seat, and you know F1 will want a female racer for their brand even if they aren't the next Lulu Hamilton, Maxine Verstappen, Daniella Ricciardo or Kimberly Raikkonen haha. A Lacey Stroll might be possible though

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Are there enough woman in the sport with enough experience to join this and not have it look like a bunch of amateurs?

Yes. What there isn't is enough of a basis for getting enough women into motorsport to convince most of the team owners watching of their talent when they're only playing against each other.

As an IndyCar fan I'm faced far too often with the issue of dealing with "fans" who insist the series should be restricted to Americans only. My answer to that has always been that I want to see the ABSOLUTE drivers, not the best drivers from X group of people. The talent scouts will be applying an identical mindset here.

You don't build the house before you build the foundation.

[Asa]

I am surprised people say women are at no disadvantage to men when it comes to driving racing cars. Either today's racing cars are too easy to drive or today's women drivers are more tough than they let on.

Putting resources into junior formulae or karting is easy to say but difficult to do. Everyone say they want to do it but who do you give the money to? They don't have much track record for you to refer to since, well, this is entry level stuff we are talking about. Someone wins a kart race and gets the backing? That way the money runs out pretty quick.

I don't see the problem of having a women's championship. I think it will encourage more women's participation. But women should also be allowed to compete in the top (i.e. men's) championship, if they are suitably qualified, like they do in chess and snooker.

Ultimately I think Liberty Media will want to create a Women's F1 Championship, but they need to get enough women racing at a certain level first. W Series might just be the formula they need for this to happen.