North West Club Saloon Challenge and North West Club Sports Car Challenge

[diz]

I have had an idea to get two new series underway to allow drivers – should they chose - to race primarily at Oulton Park and Anglesey.

Club Formula Ford has consistently proved to be a popular and well supported concept with fifty plus Formula Fords at most meetings, so why not extend the same opportunity to Sports Car and Saloon Car drivers?

NORTH WEST CLUB SALOON CHALLENGE
and
NORTH WEST CLUB SPORTS CAR CHALLENGE

CRITERIA

A Saloon Car is a saloon car and a Sports Car is a sports car whatever it’s age. Here endeth the technical regulations

WHAT KIND OF CARS DO I ENVISAGE?

This list is no way exhaustive, so take your pick from :
Saloons
Mini 7, Miglia, Cooper Challenge, Special Saloon, any of the Mighty variants.
Alfas, XRs, Fiestas, Fiats, Clios, Tomcats, CRX, Jaguars,
Anything that is a Classic or Historic Saloon
Anything else you can think of

Sports Cars
TVR, MX5, Ginetta, MG, Austin Healeys, Caterhams, Clubmans,
Anything that is a Classic or Historic Sports Car
Anything else you can think of.

With sufficient support, the races could be split to cater for “speed types” e.g. faster or slower. I've done this before and it worked well.

WHO WOULD / SHOULD BE INTERESTED IN SUCH A VENTURE?

1 The drivers who might have a car that no longer fits into the current championship classes.
2 The drivers who might not want to trek the length and breadth of the country to do their racing.
3 The race organising clubs.
4 Drivers who want the opportunity to race against different types of cars.

Eligibility would not be confined solely to North West drivers. Anybody would be welcome to enjoy the hospitality of racing in the North West.

HELP ME TO GAUGE POTENTIAL SUPPORT

Anybody who would be interested in this should Email me at ff1600.nw@ntlworld.com with the type of car they would be interested in racing.

[Ian Sowman]

Other than a greater restriction on the number of circuits used, how would this be different to the existing BARC (NW) Sports and Saloons?

[diz]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

Other than a greater restriction on the number of circuits used, how would this be different to the existing BARC (NW) Sports and Saloons?

How did I just know that it would be you hitting me with a question?

Well firstly, there would be one race solely for Saloon Cars and another solely for Sports Cars, not necessarily on the same programme.
Secondly, the races would be far more "just for the craic" than any formal championship race would be.
Club racing like it used to be. Now there is a novel concept in this day and age.

[Al Weyman]

But the same old car will win just as it did in the NW Sports & Saloons, when I hae watched it it was always that Daf thing that blitzed everyone, why would anyone else want to enter just to be cannon fodder, no I don't like these championships or series without regs I just don't think they work and not for me.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

But the same old car will win just as it did in the NW Sports & Saloons, when I hae watched it it was always that Daf thing that blitzed everyone, why would anyone else want to enter just to be cannon fodder, no I don't like these championships or series without regs I just don't think they work and not for me.

If by 'that DAF thing' you mean Tony Sugden's Skoda, that hasn't raced for three years. If I remember correctly, there have been at least three outright race winners this year - Robert Pritchard, Rick Wood & Michael Blomfield. Because the championship is class based, there have been four champions in the last four years - Tony Sugden, Duncan Aukland, Ian Hall & Robert Pritchard. Cannon fodder?

[andypipe]

Dont worry about Al, he just dont like anything

[Al Weyman]

No I don't like getting lapped after 4 or 5 laps :-) You are missing my point but I know some will agree like Rob (Racing59) as he has advocated this sort of thing here in the past. But for me I like to race where there is less disparity is that such a bad thing? I really enjoy the pre-74 and Group 1's for that very reason and although ModProds and DTRC were fun for the odd excersion I like to start a race with a mathmatical chance of winning even if in reality I never will, I can't see that makes me so negative with respect.

[COLIN STUBBS]

regional series are good in many ways.lots of us are finding it harder to budget for travelling costs these days.in answer to you al i got p++ded off at times when a camaro just like yours used to run and hide in all the pre74 races a few years ago.only problems i can see are speed differentials if all the cars are in one race and yet another bunch of different regs.then it will dilute the number of cars running in all the different series even more. needs a bit of carefull planning methinks!

[diz]

Originally Posted by andypipe

Dont worry about Al, he just dont like anything

I've altready gathered that Andy

With sufficient support, the races could be split to cater for “speed types” e.g. faster or slower. I've done this before and it worked well.

and yes Al, I know Oulton and Anglesey are miles and miles and miles north of the great Watford divide - just to save you another post

[Al Weyman]

when a camaro just like yours used to run and hide in all the pre74 races

I bet it was'nt just like mine :-)

and yes Al, I know Oulton and Anglesey are miles and miles and miles north of the great Watford divide

I have raced Oulton many times so it has nothing to do with it whatsover, I do travel as it happens I just don't reckon 'Catch All' champonships/series as they are just too diverse, the more you spend the further up the ladder you go, end of story.

[darcym]

sounds like the castle combe car championsip.

Also how do you class an MX5 as a "sports car"

[diz]

Originally Posted by darcym

Also how do you class an MX5 as a "sports car"

I suppose because it is one.

[Peter Mallett]

Diz,

This is a similar principle to a number of established championships/series. DTRC, Top Hat, Top Hat Cloth Cap, Top Hat 70's Saloons, CTCRC etc. Of those the DTRC and the CTCRC are Championships, but all have basic regulations, some more stringent than others.

Personally a non championship event is more convenient because I don't need to concentrate on a points chase so the basic premise is good for me. However I think you would run into a lack of enthusiasm if you allowed fully lightened and modified machinery (akin to Super/special Saloons) on slicks to run with steel bodied cars on treaded tyres. Unless you suggest everyone runs on slicks then you'll get complaints because of the time and cost of setting the (normally treaded) cars up. It could be a nightmare so a little more thought and you might have something.

I've not been to Anglesea but I do like Oulton Park.

However if you are keen on attracting races to Oulton and Anglesea why not contact Top Hat and the CTCRC? Both run excellent packages for diverse cars. BTW, I'm not excluding the DTRC here Rod, its a just geography thing.

[Al Weyman]

Sort of what I was trying to say Peter. At least DTRC does have a set of regs but basically any car that is out of those, Specials, Spaceframes or 4wD etc. goes into class A a sort of championship within a championship and it obviously works. Maybe something more on those lines may be worth a look at Diz.

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

If I remember correctly, there have been at least three outright race winners this year - Robert Pritchard, Rick Wood & Michael Blomfield.

Another lap at Anglesey this year and you could have added my name to that list (but actually )

Winning's not all it's cracked up to be anyway - many of my wins this season in Caterhams were pretty dull - stuff like 8 Clubs where you're scrapping away with half-a-dozen cars for 14th is generally much more fun.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Sort of what I was trying to say Peter. At least DTRC does have a set of regs but basically any car that is out of those, Specials, Spaceframes or 4wD etc. goes into class A a sort of championship within a championship and it obviously works. Maybe something more on those lines may be worth a look at Diz.

So there are regs for modern saloons (DTRC) and regs for Classics/Historics (CTCRC) thus you could run a free for all race for moderns and the same for classic/Historics.

Presumably there are similar regs for sportscars too.

[diz]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I've not been to Anglesea

Anglesey

And you have missed your chance on the original circuit. Still you could always try one, or more of the four new circuits from May 07 - if your championship is on the programme that is. From the way the initial comments are going, I don't think I'll bother pursuing the idea. I've got better things to do with my time, even though I know it would work.
At a meeting last December I got 90 entries for this concept. I ran 3 races, extracting 30 Caterhams for one race and mixing the 60 Sports and Saloons together, then splitting them into a fast group of 30 and a slow group of 30

Still, I tried, but outside forces have trampled on my enthusiasm.

[Peter Mallett]

If that bottom lip sticks out further someone will trip over it.

If you've done it before what selection of cars did you attract?

[diz]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

If that bottom lip sticks out further someone will trip over it.

If you've done it before what selection of cars did you attract?

Anglesey Performance Driving Centre SPORTS and SALOON CARS Challenge - Group B

No. Driver Home Town Entrant Make cc Colour

0 STEWART SCOTT Perthshire Driver Fiesta XR2 1600 White
1 ADRIAN OLIVER Bristol mhtools.com Hillman Imp 998 Red/White
5 CLARE BLUNT Kill Co Kildare Driver Fiat Uno 1300 Green
6 R1 JOHN IFAN JONES Anglesey Driver XR3i 1600 Red
11 ADRIAN MILLER Stratford upon Avon Team Windy Racing Fiat Punto 1242 Red
13 MICHAEL WILSON Preston Michael Wilson Racing Rover Metro Gti 1400 Red
15 MARTIN DEPPER Birmingham Advent Motorsport/Opal Telecom BMW Mini Cooper S 1600 White/Green
16 DAVID DRYBURGH Dunfermline Driver Fiesta XR2 1600 Red
21 JEFF CULKIN Crowthorne Driver MG Midget 1130 Red/White
22 WILLIAM SARGENT Halesowen Driver Peugeot 106 Xsi 1600 Red/Green
24 MATT ORFORD Caernarfon Driver Peugeot 205 GTi 1600 Blue
27 LEE MELLING Warlingham THM Racing Fiat Punto 1242 Black
30 MARK DEPPER Birmingham Advent Motorsport/Opal Telecom BMW Mini Cooper Club 1600 White/Green
32 TONY DOWLER Stroud Driver MG Metro 1293 White
36 KEITH BROOM Redditch Driver Alfa Romeo 33 1700 Black/Yellow
41 MARTIN RIMAN Coventry AMR Fiat Uno 1300 Blue
45 JEFF STOCKTON Nantwich Driver Fiat Uno 1300 Green
46 COLIN HANDY Redditch Driver Peugeot 205 Gti 1900 White
50 RACHEL OWEN Bangor Driver BMW Mini Cooper 1600 Red
52 MICHAEL RALPH Kent AMR / Original Communications Fiat Punto 1242 Black
59 TONY Le TISSIER Birmingham Driver Ford Fiesta XR2 1600 Silver
61 ROB COWING Market Drayton Driver Triumph TR6 2498 Green
66 RORY BUTCHER Fife Derek Butcher Ford Fiesta XR2 1600 Red
69 CHARLIE THORNTON Fife Driver Fiesta XR2 1600 Yellow
87 SIMON BENOY Stevenage Driver Sunbeam Imp 998 Blue/White
91 VINCE FROST Caerwys Driver Hillman Imp 998 Red/Yellow
94 STEVE PLATTS Telford Driver Singer Chamois 1040 Red
96 JOHN MAWDSLEY Caldy Driver Fiesta XR2 1600 Red
97 DAMIAN COTTRELL Bromsgrove JP Metal Treatments Peugeot 106 Xsi 1600 Miami Blue
0 w/d Alan Jackson Prov Advent Motorsport BMW Mini Cooper 1600 tba
0 w/d Steve Woolfe Prov Driver Toyota MR2
170 w/d Danny Parker Edgware James Towell MG ZR190 1800 Silver/Blue
53 w/d Andy Booy Stroud AGL Motorsport Fiat Uno 1300 White/Red

Circuit Driver Magazine CATERHAM TYPE SPORTS CARS TROPHY

No. Driver Home Town Entrant Make cc Colour
Sports Cars
0 IAN COWIE Knockhill ICR Racing Caterham 7 1600 tba
2 CHRIS "BIFFA" BATTEN Bournemouth McMillan Motorsport Caterham 7 1800 Yellow
3 DAVID PEARCE Feltham Driver Caterham Roadsport 1600 Yellow/Black
4 DAVID HEADEN Fife Driver Caterham Roadsport 1600 Yellow
6 TIM JUMP London Driver Caterham 7 1600 Green/Ali
7 CHARLIE HUNT Warrington Driver Caterham Super Grad 1600 Green
10 MATTHEW GILLBANKS Cronton topcatteam.co.uk Caterham 7 Mega Grad 1598 Aqua/White
11 ANDY McMILLAN Hinckley McMillan Motorsport Caterham 7 1600 tba
12 GLYN DAVIES Pontypool Driver Caterhan Super Grad 1600 Yellow/Ali
13 DAMON ROSAMOND London Driver Caterham 7 1600 Orange
16 ANTON LANDON Nantwich Driver Westfield SE 1800 Red
18 DOUG CARTER Kendal Driver Genesis Evo 1200 Blue
19 RICHARD REED Berwick on Tweed Driver Caterham Roadsport A 1600 Green/Yellow
22 MIKE WELBURN Burton on Trent Driver Caterham 7 Mega Grad 1600 Orange
28 CHRIS FOX London McMillan Motorsport Caterham 7 1600 Blue/Yellow
31 JOHN PARKER Irthlingborough Proform Offshore Caterham 7 Mega Grad 1600 Pink
43 SIMON MAYNE Northallerton Driver MK Indy 919 Blue
55 MIKE SOLAN Warrington Driver Caterham 7 Mega Grad 1600 Black
70 MARTIN EMERSON Bedford Driver Caterham 7 1600 Silver/Black
71 ROBERT PRITCHARD Bradford Driver Caterham Vauxhall 2000 Red
72 TOBY BRIANT Thaxted Driver Caterhan Super Grad 1600 Yellow
79 ANDREW VICKERS Atherstone Driver Caterham Roadsport 1600 Black/Ali
80 PETER FRITH Edinburgh Driver Caterham Roadsport 1600 Blue
84 MALCOLM COOK Bramshaw Driver Caterham Superlight 1800 Black/Ali
99 PATRICK SCHARFEGGER Warrington Driver Caterham Super Grad 1600 Silver
104 GRAEME SMITH Macclesfield www.bobclubgb.co.uk Caterham 7 Grad 1600 Green/Yellow
111 ANDREW ADSHEAD Hinckley McMillan Motorsport Caterham 7 1600 tba
77 w/d Keith Chanter Bookham Driver Caterham Roadsport 1600 Silver

Races 4, 9 + 14 Circuit Driver Caterhams
Delete No. 0
Add
85 Roger Ford / Twickenham Caterham SuperGrad 1600 Yellow / Silver
17 Chris Chisnall / Culcheth Caterham Roadsport 1600 Red
17 David Marshall / Manchester Caterham Roadsport 1600 Red
1 1st res Carl Bennett / Stockport Caterham SuperGrad 1600 Orange

Anglesey Performance Driving Centre SPORTS and SALOON CARS Challenge - Group A

No. Driver Home Town Entrant Make cc Colour
Saloons Sports A
0 R1 NICK FAURE Driver Porsche 911SC 2994 tba
4 STEVE HALL Chesterfield R T Racing TVR Tasmin 6600 Black
6 DAVID REYNOLDS Horley Moore Racing TVR Tasmin 2000 Murky Blue
7 JAMES BAILEY Burton on Trent DriversKnow.co.uk Ginetta G20 1800 Black/Yellow
9 RICHARD WRIGHT Wakefield Team TMS TVR Tuscan 4200 Black/Silver
11 DON GRICE Altrincham Vista Labels BMW E30 M3 DTM 2500 Blue/Black/White
14 IAN COLLINS Worcester Driver Proton 1800 White
17 OLIVER ALLEN Grantham Allen Racing/Aquawaste Services Fiesta XR2 1600 White
19 GRAHAM WAIT West Lothian GW Motorsport Sierra Cosworth 2000 Red/White
25 MARK TAYLOR Farnham Driver Porsche 911SC 2994 Yellow
33 TIM BROUGHTON Ravenshead Oldf Arty Racing TVR Tasmin 2800 Orange
38 BRIAN JORDAN Shepton Mallet Driver BMW M6 3453 Black
40 CHRIS PETCH Wilmslow Driver Ginetta G20 1800 White
41 HOWARD BRYAN Hesketh Bank R T Racing TVR Tasmin 2792 Red
42 IAN CRISP Wiltshire Driver BMW 325 2500 Light Blue
44 FREDRIK NORDSTROM Weybridge Advent Motorsport T Car 1600 Blue/Silver
46 PAUL MOLONEY Stone Driver BMW 325 2500 White/Blue
47 PHIL BOLAND Skipton Driver Ford RS2000 1997 Red
50 DOM EVANS Vale of Glamorgan XL Motorsport BMW E36 M3 3000 White/Blue
55 TOMMY DREELAN Aberdeen Driver Porsche GT2 3600 White
60 ALASTAIR KIRKHAM Manchester Driver Porsche 924 1984 Silver/Red
62 TIM WATSON Leicester Mill Street Motors Fiesta XR2 1600 Blue/Orange
64 RHODRI HUGHES Gwaenysgor Premier Cars BMW Ltd BMW 325i Sport 2494 White
72 RUSSELL PATERSON Perthshire Defendall Morgan Roadster 2967 Silver/Black
76 ANDREW THOMPSON Littleover Driver Morgan Roadster 2967 Purple/Silver
77 ANDREW CRIGHTON Prov Advent Proton
87 DAVID MATTHIAS Leek Driver Ford Sierra Cosworth 2000 White
88 TIM CRIGHTON Prov Advent Proton
98 BOB TROTTER Crewe Driver Ford RS2000 2000 Yellow
70 w/d James Towell Edgware Driver MG ZR190 1800 Silver/Blue

Races 5, 10 + 15 Anglesey Performance Driving Centre Group A
Delete 0, 38
Change of Car and No. details
77 Home Town Sandown Entrant Advent Motorsport Proton 1800cc Silver / Blue
88 Change driver from Tim Crichton to Tony Sturgess Entrant Advent Motorsport Proton 1800cc Silver / Blue
Add
8 Tony Woodhouse Northants Driver MG TF 1800cc Yellow

[Al Weyman]

Did'nt you also offer a special deal as well and at a pre season date (or late season). Its the same as the Walter Hayes you will get interest if no one is doing anything else and its a very good price as last time, is it planned to be a good deal like before two or three races for £150 was it? If so then go for it I am sure there are lots that would want to do it but I just wonder how many would sign up for a whole series not just a one off as a one off can be fun like the Rockingham one I did earlier but I would not want to keep going back to get my ass kicked as it becomes boring :-).

[Peter Mallett]

Good selection of cars there Diz and they cover historics to relative moderns. Also interesting to note the home towns for the various entries. Not really to local are thay so you got good coverage.

As Al says if you pick the timing it could be interesting.

[graeme]

Certainly a revival of the December races at Anglesey again next season would be good. There seems to be nothing on now until Boxing Day - no Anglesey obviously and no Stowe

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by graeme

Another lap at Anglesey this year and you could have added my name to that list

If I had a fiver for every time I've heard that one.....

I must say, though, that in this case it's true!

[graeme]

I'd never checked until now but I was 14 seconds a lap faster than anyone else on the last 3 (wet) laps - and finished 14 seconds behind the leader...

[chezza]

No we couldn't get our normal november Stowe date...lets hope when Anglesey is open again the december races re-commence.