Nations Cup - The Way Forward

[GTRMagic]

As I understand it, there is a plan in place by the new executive committee of PROCAR2 to rework the technical regulations of Nations Cup sooner rather than later.

The quantum of the change is to establish the speed of the Group 2 Nations Cup cars, such as the Porsche 911 GT3 and Ferrari 360 Challenge as the performance baseline for this class.

It seems obvious that the 2 class scenario hasnt worked, with a number of car owners not all that enthused at racing for trophies, while being blown off to some extent by the superexotics costing several times more.

This would mean cars like the Lamborghini Diablo GTR, Ferrari 360 Michelotto, Ferrari 550 Maranello, Dodge Viper GTS, Porsche 911 GT2, Holden Monaro 427 would be paritied back to the speed of the Group 2 cars with rev limits, air intake restrictors or additional ballast.

With the Monaro also likely being required by regulation to repower to a 5.7 Litre engine specification!!

So Nations Cup would return to the series it was around year 2000, when the Ferrari 360 Challenge was the car to have....

Meanwhile, the mega mega dollar exotics would not be deleted, more that they would be provided with additional competition from the Group 2 cars. I cant imagine its a lot of fun for the drivers to have racing between only 2 cars all the time!

By some estimates there are 9 Ferrari 360 Challenge cars in Australia, while at the most recent Oran Park round of the series, only one of them was running.

Imagine a field of 9 of these beasts on the same grid at the same time. Names like Koundouris, Wilson, Shearman, Teulan, Smith, Huglin, Savage... plus the other two in garages under a dust sheet! Imagine seeing all 9 in the one place at the same time.... would be like a European Ferrari Challenge round! Pure heaven!

Meanwhile in Porsche territory, some of the racers who joined Carrera Cup last year seem to have discovered it is
too expensive, that crashes were too regular, and perhaps they werent as talented as their previous successes may have led them to think.

These guys can take their eligible cars to Nations Cup with little modification. Again, there are 10 CC cars plus a number of 911 RS Clubsports sitting in garages across Australia looking for a place to run....

Meantime in Lamborghini land, there is a second GTR, and a Group 2 Lamborghini SVR as run by Sam Newman just itching to find a driver with a budget to go running!

While Mr Raftis has two Maserati Trofeos at his disposal that will run at Sandown....

The Nations Cup executive committee has recognised that there is some work to do on the category's fundamentals, to invite competitors back into its ranks.

Sandown will be the first meeting in a while where there will be in excess of 20 entries.... here's hoping the crowds get behind the class, as its formative Mk2 time tries to evolve into the vision Ross Palmer and the PROCAR team always had!

[bloggs]

Thanks for the constant updates on this, GTR, and yes it will be great to see such a full field of cars that may be close enough to race each other instead of a few cars running away from the field.

[mayhem]

God I hope you're right GTR, Australia needs an alternative to the V8 circus, especially a series that can offer something that AVESCO can only dream about.........variety.

[GTRMagic]

The changes at PROCAR are not the end, but just the beginning

[Also a Believer]

I know that if the new committe handicap these cars too much that several competitors will walk further away and the same picture is painted.

[GTRMagic]

I take the view that there are far more Group 2 cars in this country than Group 1s... and sending any competitor away is not the desired response.. but.. the Group 2 cars dont play because they get shat upon from a great height by the Group 1 cars....

Each of the main operations (e.g. TLA, Maranello...) has access to a Group 2 vehicle already...

[Also a Believer]

you are smarter than that GTR.

These cars will still need large cash inputs to put them back in the field and make them competitive. Do you think that they will get them out of moth balls AND spend copious amounts of cash on a whim.

[GTRMagic]

If the teams are happy to have a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of racecar gathering dust and rust, then its their own call.

Group 2 is the way forward... I have an AA in front of me that shows a 911 Clubsport for sale at $150k.. which could be run in Nations Cup tomorrow and be competitive...

[Also a Believer]

Have no doubt taht what you are saying is correct but I do think that the exotics will still struggle in this country, Whilst it is a shame I dont see a rosy future.

All this info is a bit slow since it was pouted on Wednesday eve.

[Bigguy]

Originally posted by White Knight
All this info is a bit slow since it was pouted on Wednesday eve.

Well bring us all up to date if you have new info!

Holds breath

[Also a Believer]

No new news and wont be till Wed-Thursday

[ff s conscience]

GTR

The Massers are available to run at Sandown, but nothing has happened yet.

One of them at least will run at PI in the VIC state round, and I have offered to refund the hire costs of the other one to ANYONE that can beat the other car....which will be driven by Allan Simonsen.

If you can beat Simonsen (fairly), you only pay insurance and damage.......

Huglin and Savage may race NC if it's around next year, but not this year.

The only 360C currently mothballed is Shearmans, but it is ready to go in excellent condition with a spares package including wheels, shocks, ARB etc and is up for sale. It bid up to $220,000 at the AGP auction but didn't sell.

Contact MCR or Shearman though, as things change.

A well driven 355C with some parity tweaks would be competitive....and Floydy has his for sale too.

360's around are

PHR 003 "Marlboro" ex Noske, Baird, Bowe, Simonsen and now Koundouris.....For sale with history premium!

PHR 002 Red. Warwick. ex Christain Jones. Club use only. Concours condition and more. Maybe for sale at right (high) price.

PHR 001. Red ex Noske, Beards, Ayton. Now Chris Smith NSW state scene.

PHR 004. Yellow. ex Park/Palmer, now Teulan

PHR 005. Red Shearman. For sale.

PHR 006. Red. ex Newman, Carr, Teulan, now Savage.

PHR 007. ex Silver, now bright yellow. ex Teulan, now Huglin.

PHR 008. Black. Ex Algadrie, now Wilson...For Sale...

PHR 012. Black Metallic, ex Newman, under lease to Savage but available again soon......

Michelotto #11 360 N-GT. Marlboro. Ex Briscoe, Bowe. Now private club use for now........

Michelotto #12 360 N-GT. ex Black, now Marlboro. ex Bowe now Algadrie....For sale?????

[GTRMagic]

The Shearman car is supposed to be the first 360 Challenge ever built isnt it? Ex-RPM and all that... It certainly looked nice sitting at Jeff's Shed with an anticipated indicative $230-$265 pricetag on it...

[jetsetter]

If we could get all of these cars on the grid we'd have one hell of a series which people would enjoy watching.

[ff s conscience]

err No GTR. But 003 was the second car built. 005 was the first to race here though I think, with RPM.

I should point out the PHR numbers are just the order at which cars arrived at PHR. When I left it was up to PHR023....not bad for 3 years!

There was no #13 though....#13 was called #14 and was the V8 supercar..... It was the kiss of death for the whole PHR operation and should just as well been called #13 anyway, but that's another story...one for my book!

[GTRMagic]

When are you writing the book? It will make for a great read

[ff s conscience]

I think I've pretty much written it already, just need to search a few forums and put it all together!

One day.......

[Chucky]

GTR's comments are in line with what Smiffy from TLA spoke of in a recent radio interview. A return to "production-based" sports car racing and not the mega dollar hot rods which have been the flavour for the last season or two.

[D.R.T.]

Well done to the NC administration for taking steps to getting NC back where it belongs. Im in full support.

I just pose a few questions, was it the $$$ that caused the problems in NC, from what I heard and saw, that it wasn't the issue, well no more than what is always an issue in motorsport.
But what I saw as the problem was that competitors lost faith in a series that had no firm rules and relied on Parity adjustments and other means to manipulate car peformance.
By using means to bring fastere cars to group 2 level, could this have more issues.

I like the NGT format, while the added $$$, Maybe the NC excecutives could float the notion and see who bites at NGT or Group 2 cars

[mountainstar]

Originally posted by ff s conscience
err No GTR. But 003 was the second car built. 005 was the first to race here though I think, with RPM.

I should point out the PHR numbers are just the order at which cars arrived at PHR. When I left it was up to PHR023....not bad for 3 years!

There was no #13 though....#13 was called #14 and was the V8 supercar..... It was the kiss of death for the whole PHR operation and should just as well been called #13 anyway, but that's another story...one for my book!

Whatever happened to PHR anyways? They always seemed to be well funded.

[Mark Webber]

looks to be in the right direction mainly with the CV8's coming back to where they should be at 5.7lt's

GTR what's happening with the M3R's ?

[racer69]

Mahir Algadri currently owns PHR.

The parity system has been seen as a major problem for years, and trying to peg back Group 1 cars to Group 2 speeds will just cause more problems. Cars like the 550 have been very heavily paritied already to peg it back for Group 1, what will it do if it choked even further back to the performance of a 360 Challenge.

I don't think the two-class system was a problem, nor all in all the Mongrels really, just the fact, as DRT said, there were no rules for the class, and the goal posts were moved everytime a new car came along. That is the thing that needs to be addressed.

[GTRMagic]

Originally posted by Mark Webber
GTR what's happening with the M3R's ?

The M3 GTR that ran at Bathurst for PHR was until recently still in a million pieces after coming back from the panel shop.

It seems that the future runner of this car has supplied a number of technical personnel to lovingly restore this car to how it was before the B24hr crash.

It was on line to debut at Sandown with the teamowner's son at the wheel, but I dont believe the restoration is finished yet...

[T-star]

The problem with going back to production based racing is that some cars are too good. Without parity, the Lambo is too quick (even in SVR form) than the 360C or GT3.

It used to be ok with the Viper as it was quick, but came back to the field when it's brakes ran out. A Monaro with a 5.7l would have to be heavily worked on to keep up with anything else in Nations Cup.

So do we ban Lambo's, 550 etc in order to provide a level playing field?