F1 and Moto GP popularity

[old man]

There is an interesting analysis from Dieter Renken on Autosport website

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...884.1373558528

The piece points out the fact that we all have noted, the people are not attending many of the European F1 races. Now I have to admit that I only go to one of them at Silverstone and have not been really regular at that but life changes have seen me attend the last two and the crowds were fantastic on both occasions. So first question, why are crowds so much better in the UK?

Second point is that on Sunday I attended my first Moto GP race and the circuit did not seem anything like as crowded as for the F1 race, indeed getting lunch in the paddock cafe was easy, no crush at all. How do the attendance figures compare? Getting out of the inside of the circuit took a lot longer than from the F1 race, why?

My final point is to compare the actual racing. For Moto GP I watched qualifying at home on the Saturday and found it interesting, I always marvel at the physics defying angles of the bikes and after seeing it looked forward to the race view of the Woodcote complex. On arrival the Moto GP 2 was running and my first comment was that corner speeds were not as spectacular as expected but acceleration out onto the (old) finish straight was superb.

The race itself was wet of course but the fact was that there was not the constant swapping of places that I had tended to expect, Rossi led from lap 2 or 3 and once Marquez went off was never in much danger, controlling the gap in the same was as Hamilton did in Spa. As it happens I also watched the Indianapolis Moto GP race on TV and again that was not a constant exhibition of place swapping either. So the actual racing is more visible on bikes but is it really a constant set of changes to the lead? There may be more place changes down the field but then that is true of F1.

My point about the race then is, are there more or less people attending and is the racing more exciting? I am not convinced either is true, at least on Silverstone evidence, what is the case elsewhere?

People often say bikes are much more exciting than cars and more popular, is this borne out by the facts? Or is it that the choice of things to do is taking away spectators from all forms of racing, not just F1?

[JeremySmith]

I think both MotoGP and F1 up close are very exciting !
I have been fortunate to attend one MotoGP and two F1 races at COTA ..
The enthusiasm of the crowd it what gets me going, being English I am very proud when F1 comes to town ..

In general there are many choices when it comes to sports in the USA ..
It does not seem to take much for some people to become disenchanted with a sport ..
COTA always look very well attended to me, but in all honesty I don't have experience of other circuits ..

[JeremySmith]

I replied to you on my phone so sorry if I got off track a bit ..

[bella]

cards on the table, i'm a car person first and foremost probably because i don't/can't ride a bike. i do still enjoy watching them though, a lot.

i found motogp at donington to be a bit of an anticlimax visually when i went - unlike when you watch it on telly where you're up close and personal with the entire thing you just don't get the feel of the sheer physics-defying stuff going on on the bike from a bit of a way away. keen to figure out what it was about bikes that everyone liked, i then went along to see the bsb at snetterton where you can get much closer to the action and that was far better a spectacle.

it's not really like cars where it's the visual speed that's impressive (and in some cases, the slides, the opposite lock, etc) so you can be a decent distance away and still get it, you really have to see the rider leaning in and confusing your brain to fully appreciate bikes.

on the other hand and in common with most bike races the atmosphere at donington for that motogp race was excellent, and i think that's what gets people coming back for more. don't get me wrong, silverstone when a brit gets pole at the grand prix is pretty spectacular, but the bikes is just... better.

as for the racing in motogp... i'm not sure there *are* tons of overtakes for the lead, not all the time? there's usually some kind of duel for it at some point, usually on the last lap?

[wnut]

When you watch MotoGP you are absolutely watching the best and fastest motorcyclists on the planet, F1 drivers not so much!

Being so far from the action hurts both categories imo!

[Peat]

You know, I caught the highlights of Silverstone and was immediately struck by all the empty grandstands.

The problem comes on the (F1)GP tracks that they are built for an F1 crowd, which are/were traditionally massive. I think alot of that is purely down to the fact that F1 has been streamed into people's living rooms for decades. A large percentage of people at a GP are there for the 'event' rather than the racing per se.

[marcel82]

honestly, I've only ever been to 1 GP (2009 Belgian GP), and as a regular for other races at Spa, didn't think much of it. I believe I paid 100€, which was the cheapest but 4x what I'd paid for the 6hr race, to get stuck in a small fenced off area.
didn't get to see most of the race, just the cars going by Bruxelles hairpin 44 times.
after that, left at 16hrs, got of the parking lot an hour later, didn't get home until after 21hrs (for a trip that usually takes me 1hr).

needless to say: it wasn't a fun experience, and I never felt like wasting money on it again.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Peat

You know, I caught the highlights of Silverstone and was immediately struck by all the empty grandstands.

The problem comes on the (F1)GP tracks that they are built for an F1 crowd, which are/were traditionally massive. I think alot of that is purely down to the fact that F1 has been streamed into people's living rooms for decades. A large percentage of people at a GP are there for the 'event' rather than the racing per se.

good point. i've been going to the monaco gp on and off since 1995, and the most noticable thing is how grandstands that were once full jam packed keep disappearing. for example, there used to be stands on the bridge above st devote.. not any more. a grandstand by the nouvelle chicane... first it was only for saturday and sundays, then it was gone a couple of years ago and so on.

silverstones problem is that they're all permanent. if you took them away and just rebuilt for the f1 yeah it'd be barren and windswept on tv but at least you'd not be struck by a sea of blue seats...

[SWCRacing]

Race Day Attendance:

Silverstone F1 140,000 (though that is a bit of PR as there were empty seats in most grandstands)

Silverstone MotoGP 73,000.

Bike fans just don't like Silverstone, they prefer Donington.....

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

Bike fans just don't like Silverstone, they prefer Donington.....

I'm a car fan and I don't like Silverstone - it's the worst circuit I've been to for the viewing experience.

[Peat]

Every time i go, i curse for forgetting to pack binoculars (and artic explorer attire) again.

[chillibowl]

comparing the F1 canadian GP and the MotoGP race at Laguna Seca.

Montreal hosts an amazing event but it really is the events around the city for that weekend which makes it special imo. with the reduced sound (which i am ok with) but it is fair to say that the race itself has become less of a spectacle because of the reduced sound...plus its far more expensive.

the MotoGP event on the other hand, and much of this is the track with the camping and fan areas etc, were amazing. i forgot what was possible when the local promoters did not have to send most of their money to FOM or in theis case FIM.

in terms of value there is no comparison MotoGP, hands down, offers so much more to the spectator. more support races, teams and drivers are accessible (even Lorenzo with a couple of pins holding a broken collar bone together didnt refuse a single fan a photo), the teams hospitality pavilions (separate to the ones in paddock) were open to everyone regardless of what price level ticket they bought (and a secondary contest of which team was making the best espressos...which was also free), a huge section for kids activities. MotoGP is kid friendly where as F1 is decidedly not.

in terms of spectacle its hard to compare. the sloping nature of Laguna Seca means you have some wonderful long views of the far side of the track with plenty of screens all around. Montreal, also a classic track but you have only a snapshot view of what is happening in front of you but i have been a number of times and i feel like i have a better idea of where to sit/set up.

in terms of racing, the MotoGP quali format makes for a more exciting session then the F1 format. given the time it takes to get to and from the track i find myself wanting to skip saturdays all together. as for the race, in monty i like the exit area of the hairpin but even that doesnt compare to sitting near the bottom of the corkscrew.

in terms of events surrounding the main event, well nothing comes close to Montreal. im not sure if there is a city centre that embraces the F1 weekend more. Monterey tries and they totally embrace the event but its still a small town in comparison.

in terms of leaving the track, it is hard for both events although leaving Monterey allows you to leave via the Pacific Coast Highway. unfortunately its California on a Sunday night so the highway is actually disguised as a parking lot.

all in all two very different experiences. both are great but my affinity is for F1 so that trumps all other considerations for me.

[old man]

I think the basic problem is that we have become so used to seeing the great detail that TV delivers, seeing the whole lap, the pit stop, the replays and so when we are at a circuit we want that detail. We want to know lap times, relative positions, inside info and when we are just watching trackside we don't get it.

I do not go to many football matches but last season went to see a non league game as a guest of a Director, when a goal was scored I looked for the replay!

Today I turned down a trip to Silverstone but spent all afternoon trying to keep up with that meeting, BTCC, F1 and the ELMS. We really are spoilt but by not attending are we endangering the sport? TV pays for F1 but all the rest have to subsidise coverage of their meeting and so the organisers increase the entry fee because they cannot get enough from the gate. Drivers in turn have to find increasingly high budgets and most teams have stopped even looking for team sponsors. I am told the latter is not true of 'bike teams but there were murmurings at the Moto GP that their "game" was getting worse, quite how was unspecified.

Not sure where these thoughts leave us but sport in general is now TV based, non more than our sport and as time goes by the great pull of F1 is the main driver of single seater classes. BTCC has defied this trend by having shortish races with artificial means of mixing up grids that ensure the spectators still turn out and in general they try to entertain the on track spectators, more power to their elbow!

[Airhead]

I won't go into the "which is better" argument as I ride and drive and have done so for more than 30 years.

Which is more popular, obviously F1. But, notice how Bernie was keen to poach Valentino due to his charisma, fans and then the #46 branding. Hence the Ferrari test drives and the Rally experience. F1 has been a little boring personality wise, until all of Britain latched onto The Lewis Phenomenon. On the BBC feed - apart from some old triathlete called Jenson Something Or Other - there are no other drivers in the sport at all!

Sorry there is another whisper once per broadcast of one other guy in a slow car, a Will???

Compare this to the glory days of Moto-GP, ok, to be technically correct mostly 500cc two-strokes except for Casey Stoner, to whit, Gardner 1 Championship, Doohan 5 Championships, Stoner 2 Championships.

Yes Ladies and Gentlemen, the Good Old Days...

When Aussies ruled the world!

I won't complicate things further by talking about the Super Bikes and Troy Bayliss's 3 World titles.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I'm a car fan and I don't like Silverstone - it's the worst circuit I've been to for the viewing experience.

Went there for the F1 in 2009, gen ad. Really wasn't good. I'm a small guy and had to stand on a chair (a fabric one... very awkward and painful!) just to see the cars go down the start/finish, and see a tiny bit of them entering Copse.

On the flipside, I saw the Moto in 2014 but had seats for Woodlands, which were absolutely fantastic. You could see all the way down the Wellington Straight, and Brooklands and Luffield. On the practice/qualy sessions, we went to Stowe (which was great), and sat at Club (another great view).

Basically, if you're doing Silverstone, definitely get a grandstand ticket. Otherwise, don't bother.

Selby

[wnut]

Misano MotoGP crowd 92315.767

( not really I added the figures after the decimal point but 92315 apparently!)

[old man]

In the commentary it was said that the crowd in Singapore was a record, I did not note the figure, but looking at the places from which one could watch, I did conclude I had the best seat/view, a lot of the seats looked a long way from the action. It was an interesting race in that MB/Lewis were strangely off the pace but once Lewis hit trouble the prospect of a late flurry of action disappeared and other than that it was a bit boring frankly.

I find myself being interested in the potential team changes and politics as much as the actual racing on occasions like this, once Seb had got away and the top 3 or 4 places settled that was it, shame when so much effort is put in to set up such a street circuit

It is not getting better I fear, hope Japan is an improvement

[chillibowl]

are you doing the back to back?

very nice!

[old man]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

are you doing the back to back?

very nice!

Oh yes, of course, seat booked and all plans made, should it rain I can guarantee I will be dry, except for the G & T

[wnut]

"The 2015 FORMULA 1 SINGAPORE AIRLINES SINGAPORE GRAND PRIX attracted 86,970 spectators daily, with 260,912 spectators at the Marina Bay Street Circuit over the three-day weekend."

http://www.singaporegp.sg/media/press-release/181

[wnut]

Did anyone catch the Rossi Pedrosa dice at Aragon, now that is motor racing! Brilliant!

F1 take note!