FIA gloves and boots

[midgetman]

Anyone who knows me realises that I'm not into knocking copy, nor do I go on Tenths to promote my business (much!). But I've come across a competitor who had a stand at the Silverstone Classic who is selling gloves and boots purporting to be FIA 8856-2000 homologated but which plainly aren't. The labels do not conform and the gloves in particular are visibly not as laid down by the 8856-2000 standard. It makes me cross when suppliers are either ignorant of the rules, or are deliberately passing something off for extra profit. These are cheap to import and being sold at a premium price.

Please check your race gear labels. The fake batch of labels are white writing on a blue background and omit the manufacturer's name.

Correct label: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...18849142_n.jpg

Fake label: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...69707907_n.jpg

If you bought a pair of gloves or boots bearing that blue label and are intending to use them overseas, they will fail scrutineering. I can't comment whether they will protect you in the event of a fire. If you want any advice, please contact me. I raise it now because there is normally an increase in FIA-spec sales about now as drivers kit themselves out for an end-of-season dash to Spa for the 6 Hours support races.

Ironically, the fake goods are more expensive than legal ones anyway!

Hope this helps.

Max

[GORDON STREETER]

Seeing that they are fake anyway I wonder why they didn't copy the labels as well, or were they the copy of an original label and made some while back?
By the way I nearly brought a "genuine" Rolex watch from a "looky looky" man on the beach last week for €25 !

[midgetman]

Ill tread carefully so as not to put myself on a limb. The design is hooky as well as the label. The gloves were designed to the old Norme 86 rules. They are churned out by the 1,000 by any number of little companies in Sialkot, Pakistan, and when 8856-2000 came along the manufacturers just changed the label wording, without changing the design of the gloves. but the FIA had moved the goal posts and the manufacturers didn't notice.

Under 8856-2000, gloves should be completely made of FR material (Nomex etc) with leather pads sewn on in specified areas of the palm, or the fancy new rubberised material applied. The hooky gloves have toally leather undersides which is explicitly banned in the standard.

The hooky SFI label shown here is a give away - it refers to gloves, but the label was on a pair of boots!

Please note, if the gloves are of the old design and just say ISO6940 they are perfectly legal for use in the UK. I sell gloves like this myself, but they are marketed as not FIA homologated and only for UK use. It is passing off as FIA that is wrong.

[gt917]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Ill tread carefully so as not to put myself on a limb. The design is hooky as well as the label. The gloves were designed to the old Norme 86 rules. They are churned out by the 1,000 by any number of little companies in Sialkot, Pakistan, and when 8856-2000 came along the manufacturers just changed the label wording, without changing the design of the gloves. but the FIA had moved the goal posts and the manufacturers didn't notice.

Under 8856-2000, gloves should be completely made of FR material (Nomex etc) with leather pads sewn on in specified areas of the palm, or the fancy new rubberised material applied. The hooky gloves have toally leather undersides which is explicitly banned in the standard.

The hooky SFI label shown here is a give away - it refers to gloves, but the label was on a pair of boots!


Please note, if the gloves are of the old design and just say ISO6940 they are perfectly legal for use in the UK. I sell gloves like this myself, but they are marketed as not FIA homologated and only for UK use. It is passing off as FIA that is wrong.

Well done Max for your good observations and guidance.

Graham.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Please note, if the gloves are of the old design and just say ISO6940 they are perfectly legal for use in the UK. I sell gloves like this myself, but they are marketed as not FIA homologated and only for UK use. It is passing off as FIA that is wrong.

I bought a pair of gloves with the ISO6940 label from a well known manufacturer from Ashford and was assured they were OK for use in Europe only to find out they weren't, happily a tiny bloke from Tenths sorted me with a proper pair last year.

[Lancsbreaker]

I'm sure this counts as imparting specialist knowledge for the benefit of others, rather than any form of self-promotion! Anyone knowingly (or incompetently) selling hooky gear shouldn't be protected, IMHO....

[MagnetON]

I also have no problem with posts of this nature, safety in our sport is paramount. Simple as that.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I'm sure this counts as imparting specialist knowledge for the benefit of others, rather than any form of self-promotion!

It's no secret that Max runs his own business in this area but in this thread he hasn't once said "come to me and I'll sort you out", he's only ever offered advice.

[midgetman]

I've got my backside into gear and done a comparison photo. See link below, I'm sorry I had to use my FB account I can't find the "File manager" option here.

Note the ISO6940 design gloves on the left, the branded, legal 8856-2000 on the right. Check your own gloves - if they are a single piece of leather across the palm, this is explicitly banned by the FIA. The correct design is as on the right, where the FIA specify no more than IIRC 60% of certain "zones" (palms, fingers, thumbs as defined in the rules) can be the "grip" material.

I stress that the ISO6940 design is perfectly acceptable for all forms of UK motor sport, although whether an eagle-eyed scrutineer would throw them out due to the wrong label being applied is not for me to say.

I have also seen some "8856-2000-style" gloves being made with the ISO6940 label on, again I don't think there's anything wrong with that for UK motor sport.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...56452963_n.jpg

I'm being really careful to avoid knocking copy and have cut out all names even though this picture came from the public domain. I've also carefully always used the Midgetman name to preserve my anonymity However, occasionally I am moved to action when the public are blatantly being ripped off. And regards self-promotion I've just realised I have shot myself in the foot as the Sabelt dealer that advertises here isn't me LOL!

HTH

[indigorallye]

I remember reading in the MSA mag about fake seat labels a few months back.
Maybe you should bring this to their attention too?

[MGDavid]

deleted

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by indigorallye

I remember reading in the MSA mag about fake seat labels a few months back.
Maybe you should bring this to their attention too?

It has been done. I'm working with others on this.

[Clive Brown]

I do hope that you have reported this to Trading Standards....

[GORDON STREETER]

While we are on the subject of what we can use at SPA/FIA meetings !
Will my overalls etc be OK ? Sparco standard 8856-2000 RS.006.01 / Helmet Arai GP.5/k / Boots Sparco ISO6940 FIA 86 RULES
as I don't want to get thrown out and ripped off at the track !

[midgetman]

Gordon, you'll need new boots to 8856-2000, check your gloves as well. When you buy them, check the maker's name is on the label

Helmet - if it's Snell 2000/2005/2010 you'll be fine this time.

Overalls - fine.

Don't forget you need full 8856-2000 underwear - balaclava, top, long johns, socks.

HTH

Max

[Tim Falce]

and gloves and a seat and extinguisher that's in date.

[midgetman]

Yes, and an in-date FIA seat

[GORDON STREETER]

I dont think I'll bother !

[GORDON STREETER]

What's different from the fire extinguisher that I have ?

[Tim Falce]

Depends what fire extinguisher you have. It needs to have a current service date on it.

[GORDON STREETER]

Never used to have all this trouble back in the good old days when we used to race on the continent, this is the footware I used then !

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I dont think I'll bother !

A troubling number of people think the same...

[MGDavid]

...the belts need to be FIA and in-date too....

[Chris Y]

And I think the fire extinguisher needs to be a certain minimum size too.

..And you'll need to be in posession of a ferret licence, have an FIA-approved bed to sleep in, and you'll require a certificate of sanity.

These are all minor hurdles - but they just keep sticking more in the way!

[Peter Mallett]

Will my 1976 ferret licence be ok or do I need a current one?