Is V8 supercar killing Australian motorsport?

Tony C · 21 Jul 2006, 17:14 (Ref:1661662)

I would like to hear from competitors in non supercar categories and see how difficult it is finding sponsorship at present.

Sponsorship has always been hard to find largely because motorsport does not give a good return on investment. In the past V8 teams had a major sponsor that contributed most of the budget but V8 teams are now running around with a bunch of minor sponsors on the car. In the past these sponsors would have been major sponsors on support categories.

So the question remains - Is V8 supercars killing other categories and therefor motorsport?

mountainstar · 21 Jul 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1661742)

Far from it.

V8 Supercars brought the sport into the professional era. Frankly before V8's it was a bush league sport that had few known drivers, few sponsors, a smattering of fans, poor tv and run down tracks. The only race that drew any major interest was bathurst.

41 cars for the last Fujitsu race. The level of commercial support in that catagory is probably equilivent to the same level of commercial support the main catagory enjoyed only 10 years ago.

Any support category is always going to have trouble finding major commercial support because those categories mainly attract the interest of the hardcore racing fan, not the casual fan. I hate to break it to you, but it's no different in the UK, USA, Canada, Germany or anywhere else.

D.R.T. · 22 Jul 2006, 01:52 (Ref:1661885)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

V8 Supercars brought the sport into the professional era.

I think the question is at what cost ? Most recently we had the large cost of a v8 event being passed onto the two other categories who in the end decided against competing. Surely not healthy nor sustainable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Frankly before V8's it was a bush league sport that had few known drivers, few sponsors, a smattering of fans, poor tv and run down tracks.

A smattering of fans? Please, this is one of the misconceptions drilled into people since Avesco and ten took over. Crowds werent a problem, tv yes but not crowds.

Robert Ryan · 22 Jul 2006, 02:42 (Ref:1661912)

Quote:

think the question is at what cost

Well any professional catergory is going to require more resources, so that is a given

Quote:

Crowds werent a problem, tv yes but not crowds.

True as their were less events and crowds, they were not a problem. TV was as you correctly called it was spasmodic as far as coverage went.

Chucky · 22 Jul 2006, 05:47 (Ref:1661945)

Well, so far from this thread we've found out that V8 Supercar is doing quite well. Things weren't that rosey yesteryear, but then again, they might have been better.

It still doesn't actually answer the original question, now, does it?

xr6turbo17 · 22 Jul 2006, 09:16 (Ref:1662029)

if anything that is killing the v8 is the channel 10 late coverage on sat night i hate the late night replays esp when you know who wins

hemi71 · 22 Jul 2006, 13:05 (Ref:1662142)

no its not killing it,unless you are a diehard fan then people are not interested in the other catergories and championships around.Its the same for all sports people only want to watch the elite and dont care about the rest and this also applies to sponsors they would rather have a small sign on a v8 than on a production car then they can tell people they sponsor a v8 and even the most no follower will know what they are talking about

peckstar · 23 Jul 2006, 11:22 (Ref:1662673)

ive seen no evidence of it killing motorsport

motorsport has not been as popular as what it is now sonce the early 70"s (myabe even before that but the people that were alive then tell me it was really popular back then)

The problem is that people now go racing and have alot more money (in all catagories) and so they buy the best and latest equipment giving them a technological advantage, as a result we have seen the growth of more single make or restricted classes, but it mean that more people can go racing as a result, because you only have to be a good driver now, you dont have to know how to build a race car anymore.

I still struggle to get sponsors, but i still get just as many as i used toom just now i need more finances

Mark Webber · 23 Jul 2006, 14:00 (Ref:1662739)

Well as a competitor I would say YES ...V8's are kill off Aus Motorsport
if not that at least causing a huge vaccum in the sponsor/ Tv coverage cost
I race in the NSW titles and I see huge task for my series to get Tv coverage with AVE holding keys and the right of power for grass roots series to get tv coverage I hear figures of $450.000 to obtain a full year TV coverage now for a state series thats just hwy robbery (if its true )
when Trackside was on you had to be a avseco (backthen ) support class so you had to go to abc / ave THUST THE PROBLEM .
for a small outfit to try and get sponsorship without Tv coverage is VERY VERY hard and without sponsorship its hard to get the captial to go to National levels to get to TV (using my class as a example) .
how this for a catch 22 : we have 26 saloon cars in NSW but the bulk won't race without our own race ..... but we can not get our own race unless we can show number on the grid in a feild of 30-38 car we have 7-9 full time saloon cars .... NOW IF we had TV I think we would have at less another 9 cars on grid (saloon) this would support us to fight for our own race and tadaaaa we are in business .

Add to that V8 suck all our driver talent (young openwheelers) to the fold with them trying the O/s road this gives us very little Aussie in action O/S

so is V8's hurting local grass roots HELL YES finding sponsors is hard cause componies want to be on V8's and V8's control motorsport TV pricing and more so now with the new 7 deal

Silent Number · 23 Jul 2006, 21:15 (Ref:1662956)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Webber

Well as a competitor I would say YES ...V8's are kill off Aus Motorsport
if not that at least causing a huge vaccum in the sponsor/ Tv coverage cost
I race in the NSW titles and I see huge task for my series to get Tv coverage with AVE holding keys and the right of power for grass roots series to get tv coverage I hear figures of $450.000 to obtain a full year TV coverage now for a state series thats just hwy robbery (if its true )
when Trackside was on you had to be a avseco (backthen ) support class so you had to go to abc / ave THUST THE PROBLEM .
for a small outfit to try and get sponsorship without Tv coverage is VERY VERY hard and without sponsorship its hard to get the captial to go to National levels to get to TV (using my class as a example) .
how this for a catch 22 : we have 26 saloon cars in NSW but the bulk won't race without our own race ..... but we can not get our own race unless we can show number on the grid in a feild of 30-38 car we have 7-9 full time saloon cars .... NOW IF we had TV I think we would have at less another 9 cars on grid (saloon) this would support us to fight for our own race and tadaaaa we are in business .

Add to that V8 suck all our driver talent (young openwheelers) to the fold with them trying the O/s road this gives us very little Aussie in action O/S

so is V8's hurting local grass roots HELL YES finding sponsors is hard cause componies want to be on V8's and V8's control motorsport TV pricing and more so now with the new 7 deal

well said

Oaksnaf · 23 Jul 2006, 23:46 (Ref:1663023)

V8 Supercars are doing such a great job with their category, so much so that it causes the whole of Australian media to smother it with stories, news items, coverage. Then the Australian market realises the exposure at which
V8 Supercars are getting and well its only natural for them to see V8's as the only category worth investing in as it gains the best coverage, the best audiences, and has the most amount of money circling it.

The racing itself is actually far from local state meetings I believe. But the technology and money involved makes it a massive marketing package.

What Mark Webber said, was exactly right. V8 Supercars suck Australian talent in easily. I believe mainly because it is extremely comfortable, it is perceived as the best category in Australia. It gets the best coverage, and whoever wins the series is regarded as the best driver in Australia, and likewise for the teams.

Sponsorship will always be hard to find even Development Series teams find it extremely hard. Most cars are sponsored by family/friends business in some shape or form.

But what really gets me, is that the general/average V8 Supercar fan wouldn't have a clue who is leading the development series, no-one would know who Sam Abey is, Michael Patrizi, Karl Reindler, John Martin. The only reason we know what Marcus Amrbose is doing, is because he came from V8 Supercars. It's hard enough to go to Europe, $$ wise and all other matters. And whilst Australian business' have no real point in sponsoring overseas drivers, it would still be nice to see exposure in the media.

I think RPM can do a lot more to promote Australian motorsport than it is at the moment. Why cant they talk about CAMS National Rising Stars drivers Lindbom, Williams, Pittman in Vic Formula Ford/NSW Formula Ford and let people know what is being done to help young Australian talent.

The other point is self promotion, its a bit like non-for-profit charities, some believe that they shouldn't be spending any money to promote themselves since they are a charity. And well thats wrong, and thats the administration ignorance. I think some categories in Australia dont do enough self promotion, and then there are some categories who are too politically driven that even the competitors dont know whats going to happen next.

A perfect opportunity arose for the BMW E30 class with the Car Show and I hope the story is run in the best light for the category, as usually when they run with VMRC they are the best category out there and have the most supporters come to watch.

peckstar · 24 Jul 2006, 00:03 (Ref:1663031)

interesting points you guys make, but how has it changed since v8s came along, it hasnt, it has always been difficult to get sponsors, it has always been difficult to get tv coverage. Even the v8s cant get sponsors and go back fifteen years they couldnt get tv coverage either (some would argue they are still stuggling to get it outside the channel they are on)

My local football also stuggles with sponsorship and tv time (its gets none) but it always has.

Oaksnaf · 24 Jul 2006, 00:16 (Ref:1663033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

interesting points you guys make, but how has it changed since v8s came along, it hasnt, it has always been difficult to get sponsors, it has always been difficult to get tv coverage. Even the v8s cant get sponsors and go back fifteen years they couldnt get tv coverage either (some would argue they are still stuggling to get it outside the channel they are on)

My local football also stuggles with sponsorship and tv time (its gets none) but it always has.

But it shouldn't always be a case of the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

Local football players, some, even have a hard time finding $100 of sponsorship. It relates to a logo on the back of their jumper, and they still get rejections from companies.

I honestly dont believe we should use the past as an excuse. Just because the way it was in the past, shouldn't be how it is in the present. I dont think we should just accept it, just because its 'always' been like this.

Plus some of us weren't old enough to know the situation motorsport was in 15 years ago.

peckstar · 24 Jul 2006, 00:29 (Ref:1663039)

but the question on the thread is v8 killing aust motorsport

Now if the question was could v8s be doing more to support australian Motorsport then the answer may be different

but there seems very little difference now to the past , do we have new catagorise now, yes we do are some traditional classes going the way of the dodo yes it is. but Motorsport as a whole is growing

Oaksnaf · 24 Jul 2006, 00:45 (Ref:1663045)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

but the question on the thread is v8 killing aust motorsport

Now if the question was could v8s be doing more to support australian Motorsport then the answer may be different

but there seems very little difference now to the past , do we have new catagorise now, yes we do are some traditional classes going the way of the dodo yes it is. but Motorsport as a whole is growing

I dont think its V8's which are the problem.

Every category is there to look out for themselves, nothing wrong with that.

I just find that the media have played a large part in isolating V8's as the sole category in Australia. Not just Motorsport Magazines' but the Herald Sun, The Age, Sports Tonight, RPM.

Luckily we have programs like Speedweek and InPitLane for footage and coverage of local motorsport.

And the future spectators/fans in 15-20 years are no-where to be seen at local meetings. I reckon the average age of the spectator at a V8 Supercar meeting would be younger than the average spectator at Vic State. That in itself I think is a problem for local motorsport.

pete55 · 24 Jul 2006, 07:07 (Ref:1663138)

With V8 Supercars being so sucessful wouldn't it be a wonderful idea that all motorsport should benefit financially. If CAMS were running motorsport in a proper way i feel that that is what should be happening. Trouble is i doubt CAMS could do anything sucessfully.

Silver 3 · 24 Jul 2006, 08:16 (Ref:1663173)

Cams seeks to control motorsport not"run" it. Collectively they are incapable of running a "chook" raffle !

David Towe · 24 Jul 2006, 08:54 (Ref:1663197)

Try to get a sponsor for any category outside V8s and maybe you'll see the process of domination by the Black Wiggle is only focussed on one thing...putting money by the truckload into his bank account at any cost.
I was told recently that the going rate to get onto the V8 support programme is $9,000 per entry. Now I find that a little hard to believe, but if it is true why should it be so high? What do support categories get for their money? Parked in the middle of nowhere in the paddock and shuffled off the programme at the drop of a hat.

peckstar · 24 Jul 2006, 09:03 (Ref:1663205)

oh and around 30,000 speactators, probbaly more that most series put together

bathurst · 24 Jul 2006, 11:17 (Ref:1663292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Towe

Try to get a sponsor for any category outside V8s and maybe you'll see the process of domination by the Black Wiggle is only focussed on one thing...putting money by the truckload into his bank account at any cost.
I was told recently that the going rate to get onto the V8 support programme is $9,000 per entry. Now I find that a little hard to believe, but if it is true why should it be so high? What do support categories get for their money? Parked in the middle of nowhere in the paddock and shuffled off the programme at the drop of a hat.

Not only are the V8 supercars taking away sponsors from other categories and sports,they dont care about the damage they are doing to Motorsport. Franchises make it impossible to get into the top category unless you are made of money to pay TC. We will see the consequenses big time down the track when there are no drivers coming through. EXCEPT for Formula Ford, which is full of young drivers with talent and passion who will get sponsors and progress that way rather than having plenty of money and Zero talent. Support categories get zero for their money get races red flagged for minor reasons, zero tv coverage for Formula Ford, just look through the list of previous champions........ Perkins,Mezra,Bright,Whincup, Ritter, Tander, Larkham,McConville the list goes on and on. Dont let our V8s die.

Rombles1 · 24 Jul 2006, 12:58 (Ref:1663362)

If V8SC is killing Australian Motorsport, does anyone have a solution they'd like to propose? Assuming you can't join it, how will you beat it? Remember V8SC is a business, there to make money for the shareholders - ie SEL and TEGA (the competitors). They will not simply roll over for the good of someone else's desire to race.

johnny yuma · 24 Jul 2006, 12:59 (Ref:1663363)

Lets get real about this Advertising ********.V8SCA have managed to get their snouts in the shallow muddy end of the trough where the corporate pigs like to hang out and bask in the pathetic transient luxury of a corporate box at a sporting event to impress their kids and peer group while the mug punters pay full price to tread the sacred ground,buy ridiculous merchandise which makes them look like retards to most other Australians who are not V8 fans,and mostly rightly perceive the Bathurst 1000 crowd the same way as Jim Richards so neatly described them when he was booed for winning in a Nissan.

Did anybody out there buy Mobil oil because Peter Brock had it on his guards?
I don't think it quite works like that.When the day comes when Cochrane's Clan dont think its worth it any more,first in best dressed will find some money.
In the meantime yes V8SCA is strangling Expensive Motorsport...but whose problem is that?Is the local Pizza Shop going to give you $3000 to buy some wheels and tyres and get it back because more people in Cowtown buy a pizza-I dont think so.

In the much maligned past a lot of racers built and campaigned what they could afford,and the spectator was very satisfied to see them race.It didnt cost a weeks pay to spend a long weekend at Bathurst so that a bunch of prima donnas in identical cars could afford it all.

Robert Ryan · 24 Jul 2006, 20:35 (Ref:1663635)

Quote:

If V8SC is killing Australian Motorsport, does anyone have a solution they'd like to propose? Assuming you can't join it, how will you beat it

Now that is a positive reply. The only way you can beat something is either outperform or hobble it. Too many people on this board have the "hobble" mentality.

Silent Number · 24 Jul 2006, 20:45 (Ref:1663641)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Cams seeks to control motorsport not"run" it. Collectively they are incapable of running a "chook" raffle !

good onya silver, it is good to see you have jumped over to the dark side.

Tony C · 24 Jul 2006, 21:35 (Ref:1663676)

Drivers will allways want to drive in the 'premier' category whether it is V8 supercars or HQ's and they will drive to the best of their ability, anyone that watched Brocky and Crompton in the Bathurst 12 hours (production cars) pitching their cars into the chase to scrub off speed due to lack of brakes, will testify that it was spectacular.

If production cars, or improved production cars were the premier class, all the current V8 teams and drivers were in it, spending less money, would the sponsors follow? Would you watch it? Would there be more money for other categories? Would Australian motorsport be better off?