V8 and Konica's - just how do they compare?

[RaceTime]

It isn't often we get a chance to do a proper side-by-side comparison of the Konica series and main stream V8 cars - so thought I would put them together from Official Qualifying and see how they stack up.

Full listing is here http://www.racetime.com.au/?event=k0...1&view=fastest

Matthew White would have qualified in 25th position just ahead of David Besnard. Other Konica cars who would have qualified are Owen Kelly, Andrew Jones, Cameron McLean and Alan Gurr. And that would make a 32 car grid.

Of the V8's to NOT qualify (applying a 32 car cut off) - Dale Brede, Philip Skifleet, Terry Wyhoon (way down in 51st outright), David Kraus, David Thexton and, with no qualifying time, Paul Weel.

Make of it what you will - but was an interesting exercise all the same...

[GTRMagic]

RaceTime, when was the last time an HRT car failed to make the top 10 shootout?

And yes, it shows that there is a gulf between the 2 series, a technical one (car) and preparation/development one as well....

[Matt H]

using that instance rt, speedy out qualified someone

[Onlooker]

I still think that qualifying should be held and then the grids made up for the main and Support races,some will go down and some will go up, good for the sport,good for the fans,great for the drivers going up and a fairly pronounced indication of a team/drivers performance for those on the slide.

[mixxer]

I like it Onlooker but I doubt sponsors would

[RaceTime]

Inlooker - yes - agree totally - probably for a different reason that you however

Doing it this way (ie all cars in together) they HAVE to fight each other for grid positions. If you look at the top few Konica's - sure they are, as GTR says, technologically apart - but they are still capable of getting a good result given the equipment they have.

What is of concern to me, however, are the bottom few V8 cars - the fact that they are even allowed to run in the main category this weekend suggests that someone should be stepping in and pulling them off the grid...

[Onlooker]

Nothing sinister in my intentions RiceTime

I think that if you pay your hard earned bucks then you should see the fastest car driver packages that are contained withing the pit area,not the cars entered by those who own a spot on the grid. Not only dopes it make a mockery of the championship but it sends a bad message to sponsers who are looking to get in.
Equally it gives the younger drivers a chance to race with a few of the bigger names and see how they do.
Think about how good it would be to watch say an Owen Kelly or Allan Gurr leading home say Besnard and Dumbrell in the Konica's

[GTRMagic]

So allow 32 permanent grid spots and 2 wild cards, like it works in MotoGP.... they get no prizemoney, but are there for points or whatever it is they can achieve

[RaceTime]

BUt doesn't having someone like Thexton (and, judging by his times this weekend, Wyhoon) also send a bad message? - 5 seconds off the pace and they expect - no, they have a right - to stay with the V8 class..

It will be interesting, btw, to see if the Stewards allow Wyhoon, Krause and Thexton start as they are all outside the 105% qualifying (Maybe Wyhoon and Krause as they are new in this category, but IMHO, Thexton has already shown he does NOT have the equipment or ability to claw above the 105%...)

[Onlooker]

Originally posted by RaceTime
BUt doesn't having someone like Thexton (and, judging by his times this weekend, Wyhoon) also send a bad message? - 5 seconds off the pace and they expect - no, they have a right - to stay with the V8 class..

It will be interesting, btw, to see if the Stewards allow Wyhoon, Krause and Thexton start as they are all outside the 105% qualifying (Maybe Wyhoon and Krause as they are new in this category, but IMHO, Thexton has already shown he does NOT have the equipment or ability to claw above the 105%...)

My sentiments excactly,in reality if you are just racing for fun then fine but not at the expense of some one else.Mind you that said the teams left holding these franchises (it would appear) have not been offered a deal to run these cars for someone else either.Maybe the lack of a decent progress system and the cost structure of the current one prohibits it.
I am sure plenty of drivers could get the bucks together to do say 3 rounds or so but can't fund a whole championship.

[GTRMagic]

Onlooker if any drivers want to run for a couple of rounds, and have the car and/or the budget to participate, noise around suggests a serious tilt can be had for something approaching $60k per round of the main series.

You can guess which teams have this option available, and which of the three doesnt!

[lcfp2297]

So if we took this all qualify and the top 32 race then how would the Konica series be decided...The best of those who couldn't qualify in the big league? (i.e. what if AJ qualified for half the races in the V8's and the other half in Konica's...couldn't win either...)

I'd prefer to see the top 2-3 cars/teams from Konica each year 'invited' to be promoted...and the bottom 3 cars/teams in the V8's be relegated to the Konica's...

Cheers

[pplater]

Can thje konica winner race konica the following year?

[ford boy]

Yes they can P Plater.

[dangeradam]

i think it shows that there are alot of konica drivers that on merit should be in the top series (given also that they are driving slower cars) and that there are alot of people in the top level that shouldn't be but thats motorsport.

[GTRMagic]

There are some drivers in Konica who are looking to move up to the main series next year, at least one I know of has a main series deal already nailed.

Konica is an indication that the driver can drive the Supercar at the speed required better than other people in the same scenario. With a few notable exceptions, it isnt a demonstration of engineering prowess by the teams, and integration with the driver to develop the car forward.

Which is the main step from Konica to main series.. being able to develop a car, to establish settings in a very short practice session with experience and knowledge as a guide... decisiveness...

Plus hopefully some racecraft to be able to play in packs of cars and not use them as braking markers...

To watch someone like Cam McLean push a car clearly not capable of the speed, into the positions he manages, and how the driver reacts in traffic is really good fun to see... having drivers move over for other people because they dont have the skill to run with them is dead boring

[Chucky]

I like the idea of moving them up and down as their performance dictates. It's sort of English Premier League kind of deal.

If they ever organised this a bit further into mandating two car teams, then they could swap the bottom 5 teams with the top 5 Konica teams. Then we'd see some serious racing for 20th place!

[Ozfords]

I don't like this approach of pushing the slower cars into the second tier series and the faster cars into the main series. It would be disastrous for sponsership!

I support the two grid spot wild card idea. Most Knoica Minolta teams wouldn't be able to afford to follow the circus. But these wild card positions only be made avaliable for rounds where both series run side by side.


Ozfords

[Just Do It!]

$60k for a serious tilt? GTR...mate...serious tilt?

[jaytor]

$60K a round wouldn't even give you a run in Konica with a level one team, more in the order of $80K+ from my sources.

[GTRMagic]

7 rounds (including the 25 lapper) at $60k + GST = $420k + GST.

If you spend more than that, arguably there is some money being spent in the wrong areas.

I do know of a team using up a stock of lightweight bits and pieces in their engines, and lunching more than a few in the process that would be demolishing that amount alone in componentry....