Does anyone have any pictures of...

DNQ · 4 Jul 2001, 00:55 (Ref:112763)

Does anyone have any photographs of the Le Mans style starts were the drivers had to run across the track to their cars?

SL · 4 Jul 2001, 19:03 (Ref:113072)

Like this one of 1969.

See Ickx walking to his GT40, an act that almost cost him the win

Simon

DNQ · 5 Jul 2001, 00:46 (Ref:113207)

Thanks, SL.

Wasn't 1969 the last time the race was started like that?

racer69 · 5 Jul 2001, 04:42 (Ref:113232)

yes, going by what they say in the movie "Le Mans", which is based on the 1970 race, but that year they still started from a standing start angle parked like in the picture, just they didn't run to the car.

What year did the current roling start begin being used, and why did Ickx walking to the car nearly cost him the win.

Heeltoe6 · 5 Jul 2001, 05:05 (Ref:113236)

69 was perhaps the cloosest finish in le mans history, with Ickx narrowly beating Hans Herrmann. If he had not been so idyllic at the start, the margin, theoretically, could have been greater

SL · 5 Jul 2001, 18:11 (Ref:113475)

Ickx walked as he considered it needlessly dangerous because it encouraged drivers not to bother with their harness before screaming away. The leaders were already on the Mulsanne before he set off in chase.

The car he shared with Jackie Oliver was the same chassis that won in 68.

Ickx won by less than 100 yards over 24 hours 3005 miles (4836KM)

1970 saw the start in the chevron pattern as usual but with drivers strapped in the cars, but engines cut shortly before the start. The following year, 71 saw the first rolling start.

Simon

DNQ · 5 Jul 2001, 22:44 (Ref:113561)

Ah yes, the movie le mans! That was a brilliant movie.

Here is another picture of the 'le mans style' race start:

DNQ · 5 Jul 2001, 22:47 (Ref:113564)

Hmm, I attached it, but it didn' appear. So here it is again.

Dr. Austin · 15 Mar 2002, 20:25 (Ref:235931)

hahahaha! Look at the second guy putting on the binders and slipping about on the wet pavement! It would not have been a very good place to slip and fall!

Stoffer Green · 15 Mar 2002, 20:31 (Ref:235936)

Dr Austin
If you look on Aysedasi's web site you will see some (poor) photos that I took from the pits in 1957 showing the start. In one just before the drivers lined up, you can see Paul Frere chatting by his D type Jaguar while my cousin squeezes past!

Fab · 16 Mar 2002, 07:35 (Ref:236227)

Hey SL and DNQ ! Wonderful pictures ! I never see them before ! Did you take them on the place ?

Those post here ae too small... could you post them on Ayse site, if he is agree with it indeed...

I'd like to have them... congratulations and lots of thanks for that

Ray Bell · 16 Mar 2002, 08:20 (Ref:236230)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
Those posted here are too small...

Shhhh... don't say such things around here, it's frowned upon!

**Aysedasi** · 16 Mar 2002, 08:59 (Ref:236240)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
Those post here ae too small... could you post them on Ayse site, if he is agree with it indeed...

'Ang on a minute! Whilst here is not the place to discuss what I can/can't do with my site, I should perhaps make it clear that I'm now very unlikely to be posting any more contributed pics for quite a while now that Le Mans 2002 is fast approaching. (Besides, did you take the pics yourselves, SL and DNQ?).

SL · 16 Mar 2002, 09:07 (Ref:236243)

No I did not take the photo, I is from the 1999 Le Mans programme.

SL

**Aysedasi** · 16 Mar 2002, 09:14 (Ref:236250)

Quote:

Originally posted by SL
No I did not take the photo, I is from the 1999 Le Mans programme.

SL

Is it?! Missed that. But then when I get my programme from the ACO each year, it goes straight into the bottom of my bag and then gets filed away at home in pristine nick, I often don't read them for months (years?) afterwards. What I need is an English translation! Perhaps I should employ Fab as my official translator!

Fab · 16 Mar 2002, 11:27 (Ref:236325)

You've not taken the pictures yourself, you don't have the copyright... ACO is very attentive about those questions...

Don't post them, definitly...

Forget my askings about the size of the pictures... and that's true again, Ayse site is not done for it (sorry Ayse...)...

**Aysedasi** · 20 Mar 2002, 13:27 (Ref:240105)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
Forget my askings about the size of the pictures... and that's true again, Ayse site is not done for it (sorry Ayse...)...

We're limited as to the size we can post here on 10/10ths, Fab (as I think you know from your great pics of the new track layout). I'm also limited personally for space and will be removing pages next weekend

J_Ickx_Fan · 25 Mar 2002, 10:59 (Ref:243516)

Just found a place where you can get a little video (47 sec) of the Le Mans 1966 start : http://www.carfilms.com/videos1.htm

There is also one of 1969 race but not that great

SL · 25 Mar 2002, 21:22 (Ref:243953)

My God, just downloaded the Video's. How nobody had a huge accident was amazing, some of the fast starting cars at the back cars must be doing over 100 when passing the slower away cars near the front.

I can see now why Ickx wanted it stopped.

SL

AllonFS · 26 Mar 2002, 08:34 (Ref:244270)

How long did it take Ickx to get across the track? All the descriptions I have read talk about him walking calmly across the track, while everyone else ran as normal. I have always wondered how he managed to avoid being hit by the other cars taking off.

J_Ickx_Fan · 26 Mar 2002, 09:33 (Ref:244284)

he came near his car before the other started.
The main reason he did that was because Willy Mairesse (another Belgian driver) was badly hurt in a accident at the end of the first lap in 1968 at Le Mans because he wasn't belt (thanks to SL, this info was on the pages he sent me

.
I wish I can attached a picture to this but ain't no clue how to do it. But if you check on my website, I received a second picture of that 1969 start where one can see Ickx near the car. Just go to www.jacky-ickx-fan.com then Galleries, Sportscar-GT Racing, in the middle of the page.

Muzza · 28 Mar 2002, 01:24 (Ref:245562)

Dear Friends,

Surely Ickx's attitude was motivated by safety concerns - and on that very same edition of the 24 Hours of Le Mans he would be proved right bn the sourest reasons.

Porsche was racing the mighty, legendary model 917 that year. The car - which later became one of the most successful racing cars ever - was still being developed, and was proving to be very dangerous. So dangerous that Porsche ran out of test drivers: very few were brave enough to try it...

Porsche, that had already developed a good market selling customer units of their previous 904, 910 and 911 models, was willing to sell the new 917 to private teams. Rather surprisingly, John Woolfe, a British driver of minor rank, managed to buy the very first customer unit. This raised quite some eyebrows, because famous racing teams were queueing up to get one of the cars - and then Woolfe, out of nowhere, came up with a pile of money and got one, numbered chassis 005.

History would later show 1969 was to be the last year that Le Mans would be started under its truly traditional procedure, with the drivers running across the track, jumping into the car and zapping off. For reasons of safety, this method had been under criticism by many drivers. A driver could be easily run over by a car, and the competitors were all bunched up and swapping positions on the first laps. Exciting, but very dangerous.

As mentioned by our colleague J_Ickx_Fan, Jacky Ickx, marred my the accident with his friends Willy Mairesse the previous year, decided to walk across the track, instead of running. Having told the press of his intentions, he dragged more attention to the then incipient debate about motor racing and safety.

John Woolfe, instead, thought differently. As soon as the French flag came down, starting the race, Woolfe - not a slim man by any measure - dashed across and jumped into his car.

Woolfe, who was to share the car with the Herbert Linge (kindly "suggested" by Porsche), was making full use of the huge - and terrifying - speed of the 917 and overtook many cars on the course of the first lap. Upon reaching the fast, treacherous Maison Blanche section, though, he lost control of the Porsche and crashed violently.

The car exploded in flames, killing Woolfe instantly. The fire tank was thrown back in the middle of the track, and was collected by the Ferrari 312P driven by Chris Amon at full speed. The flames also engulfed the Ferrari, and Amon was very lucky to escape alive, although with burns.

The most ironic - and sad - thing is that many witnesses reported that Woolfe departed without fastening the safety belts. Besides that, there are also reports that Woolfe was trying to close one of the doors of the 917, that had popped open, propelled by the aerodynamic pressure (a problem that many fast late 1960s sportscars experienced, 917s included). And this at more than 250 km/h.

Woolfe was killed by his own heist. This, plus Ickx's example, fell heavy on the lap of the organizers. The next year the Le Mans race was started differently, with the drivers fully strapped in their cars, and with a co-driver running across the track and turning an external electric switch to start the engine.

This was still dangerous though, and for 1971 Le Mans abandoned the traditional starting procedure altogether. And forever.

Muzza

Fab · 28 Mar 2002, 06:33 (Ref:245687)

Muzza, thank you very much : it's the first time I have so much details about the story of this first 1969 lap... the pictures of those pilots whom we now they are going to die just after are very moving : John Woolfe looking his car and then jumping in it, and earlier Pierre Levegh in 1955 having the last advises by Neubauer...

Last year, a lot of you fans must have seen the Le Mans departure procedure at the start of the classic race, saturday morning... I was myself very impressed by the risks the pilots took, some were quite old, but running like hell and jumping in their cars, pushing the start button as if the greatest race was in game...

I was very impressed, in this bunch of pilot, by Stirling Moss ; I saw in the 2001 ACO' tape the start of the race again : it's incredible, but he made exactely the same gestures and turning heads than 30 years before - there's the same movie and camera pisition behind the car - ! And he started last year like a devil !

This way of starting the race is definitely too dangerous.

Dr. Austin · 28 Mar 2002, 06:34 (Ref:245688)

More great work from Muzza!

On the fifth lap, Vic elford, also in a 917lh, stopped to have his door fastened. The has been speculation that Woolfe, who apparently did not fasten his belts, was sucked partially out of the car and that is what caused the accident.

I generally do not like to have models of cars that people have died in, but this is one of only three 1969 porsche 917LH's that ever raced, so I had to have it.

Hey, Muzza, check this out........

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=17944

J_Ickx_Fan · 28 Mar 2002, 12:42 (Ref:245868)

I have read somewhere that John Woolfe's Porsche was a 917 K and the other two were 917 LH (Stommelen's and Elford's). Am I wrong ?
What's the difference between the LH and the K ?
I know that the K model was from John Woolfe Racing and the two LH models where from Porsche System Engineering.
Is that all the difference ?

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