EU Investigation into F1

[wnut]

Here we go!


http://www.pitpass.com/54018/EU-inve...begin-in-weeks

[Paradise City]

I hope the EU raises hell in F1.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I hope the EU raises hell in F1.

Seconded! First time I can actually say I look forward to a government institution getting involved in anything!

[Sodemo]

It's strange how more or less the exact same model of securing events with FIFA is used in F1, yet in F1 it's considered "the norm". The irony is so thick you could cut it with a block of Lego. Why is Fifa in trouble? Because countries / governments were paying vast sums of money in kickbacks to important board members. Is that so different to the way F1 events are secured? True, the F1 process is somewhat more transparent, however the fact remains that the host country or track pays a vast sum of money to Bernie in order to secure the event.

I was hoping that it would be something along these lines that the investigation was targeting, however it looks more like its an investigation into the distribution of prize funds, which I find somewhat less interesting and less important.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wnut

Here we go!


http://www.pitpass.com/54018/EU-inve...begin-in-weeks

I think that you are jumping the gun, somewhat.

The article is two weeks old, and only states that the EU could commence an investigation into F1 provided that they received an official complaint from, one assumes, a participant in the sport.

My own belief is that the teams are, to some extent, totally in the hands of BCE and so will not actually make that formal complaint, and therefore the threat will go away. There were the same mumblings in the paddock last year about Force India, I think it was, making a complaint, but it never happened and I doubt that it will this year either.

As for the position about the issue of FOM granting licences to various tracks to run a F1 event, in essence it is nothing more than an auction with the highest bidders winning the race slots. That is not against EU rules. However, if it was BCE offering bribes to the various countries for them to take the races, then that would be a different matter. The reality is that it would seem as though there are more venues trying to hold a GP than the teams are willing to race at, and BCE can't really be blamed for that!

[Casper]

Does anyone seriously think BE will allow any complaint from any internal source within F1? I hope it goes ahead and I hope BE cops it in the neck but from the outside looking in the teams knew the deal and signed on the dotted line and BE has a point. Why anyone pays him anything to hold a race has always fascinated me, I thought promoters were supposed to foot the cost and wear the risk, that's the way it works in other pursuits like music etc.

[Paradise City]

---double post---

[Paradise City]

You don't need an internal whistler blower to trigger an investigation. The issue here and with FIFA is that they are both intertwined with the political establishments in Europe. It fell to the Americans - comparative outsiders - to go after FIFA and probably noone will bother to go after the FIA.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

You don't need an internal whistler blower to trigger an investigation. The issue here and with FIFA is that they are both intertwined with the political establishments in Europe. It fell to the Americans - comparative outsiders - to go after FIFA and probably noone will bother to go after the FIA.

I believe that the type of investigation that is being talked about is one to look at an unfair market, where recipients are treated unequally by design, e.g. Ferrari is paid a huge amount for basically just turning up, whilst a team that might be 11th in Championship gets nothing and even has to pay for his own freight on fly-away races. Plus, perhaps more importantly, currently 6 teams are determining all the rules, both technical and sporting, whilst the other 4 teams have virtually no say whatsoever in the matter.

These inequalities do not directly affect the general public although we may, justifiably, be upset by them. However, they do affect the teams directly, so the complaint has to come from one of them. Although it could, in theory, originate from a whistle-blower, it needs to come from a team principal and as they rely on BCE to fund them, I think that that is highly unlikely.

The situation in F1 is completely different to that concerning FIFA and bribes. This is more to do with whether F1 is being run as a monopoly, and if FOM is abusing it's market position (the reason that FOM was split off from the FIA in the 1st place). The FIFA thing is basically about alleged bribes, alleged tax evasion and alleged money laundering.

[wnut]

From this by Todt, it seems that the EU investigation will only concern itself with the division of the prize money.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/eu...fia-says-todt/

Todt is however saying that the FIA will carry on pushing for a cheaper engine.

[djinvicta]

"The FIFA thing is basically about alleged bribes, alleged tax evasion and alleged money laundering."

Which obviously BCE knows nothing about..

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wnut

From this by Todt, it seems that the EU investigation will only concern itself with the division of the prize money.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/eu...fia-says-todt/

Todt is however saying that the FIA will carry on pushing for a cheaper engine.

I'm afraid that the article doesn't quote him saying that at all.

As far as I am aware, the actual complaint hasn't been been made public, but what is known is that the two teams hace complained about both the governance and the commercial rights structure are anti-competative. This would seem to be aimed at FOM, rather than the FIA. No doubt that in due course we shall find out more.

And of course, in answer to djinvicta, BCE knows nothing about bribes although he claims to know all about being blackmailed!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I'm afraid that the article doesn't quote him saying that at all.

As far as I am aware, the actual complaint hasn't been been made public, but what is known is that the two teams hace complained about both the governance and the commercial rights structure are anti-competative. This would seem to be aimed at FOM, rather than the FIA. No doubt that in due course we shall find out more.

And of course, in answer to djinvicta, BCE knows nothing about bribes although he claims to know all about being blackmailed!

Really Mike, from the article:


Todt has become more pro-active in recent weeks …..expressing frustration that …cap on customer engine prices were blocked by Ferrari.
I have been trying with my people to see what could be an option. We don’t have any influence on revenues, it is a matter for the commercial rights holder, but we need to have an influence on the regulations.
“In this case, I only see the possibility of introducing the more affordable engine which will still allow the teams to be competitive.”

[Adam43]

It seems Mike's reference to the lack of quote isn't referring to the engine bit, it's about the scope of the investigation.

Todt doesn't say much about the scope and the actual details of the complaint and doesn't actually quote him saying that it is only about the prize money. That part is added by the writer. Mike does go on to speculate that it may well be more to do with FOM than FIA.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It seems Mike's reference to the lack of quote isn't referring to the engine bit, it's about the scope of the investigation.

Todt doesn't say much about the scope and the actual details of the complaint and doesn't actually quote him saying that it is only about the prize money. That part is added by the writer. Mike does go on to speculate that it may well be more to do with FOM than FIA.

Thank you Adam, that is exactly what I meant as it has seemed in the recent past that the FIA has apparently all but delegated it's regulatory powers to FOM and some of the teams, of course.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by wnut

Todt has become more pro-active in recent weeks …..expressing frustration that …cap on customer engine prices were blocked by Ferrari.

That's reassuring, given how pro-active he was for the good of the sport when he was boss at Ferrarri.

Oh...

[wnut]

Has anyone seen if there has been any movement from the EU on this matter?

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by wnut

Has anyone seen if there has been any movement from the EU on this matter?

What with the Ukraine confrontation, the Middle East refugee crisis and now Brexit I would suggest EU officials have been told to keep their heads bellow the parapet.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

What with the Ukraine confrontation, the Middle East refugee crisis and now Brexit I would suggest EU officials have been told to keep their heads bellow the parapet.

Fair point Oldtony!

[Mekola]

It could give me some (little) hope if there is a sort of change - F1 must be different, more kind, more affordable, there are a vast of teams (Carlin, Dams, ART et al) that should be in F1 by merit, but aren't because they want to avoid a bankrupt, considering the "Piranha Club" levels that F1 has.

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

What with the Ukraine confrontation, the Middle East refugee crisis and now Brexit I would suggest EU officials have been told to keep their heads bellow the parapet.

I'm Ukrainian, if you don't like the fact I'm Argentinian. Ukraine is the land of my grandparents.
I'm trying to not to fall in chauvinism and not to talk about the Falklands, despite I know that war disturbed a lot the presence of Argentine drivers in European scheme of motorsport since 1982, and evend change local Argentinian motorsport since then via the money from TV broadcasts (with Reutemann gone, slopped the interest in F1 then for casual people, but fortunately Argentina still has a lot of F1 fans). It was crucial to understand why Argentinian motorsport is in a nutshell of strong tin-top series.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mekola

I'm Ukrainian, if you don't like the fact I'm Argentinian. Ukraine is the land of my grandparents.
I'm trying to not to fall in chauvinism and not to talk about the Falklands, despite I know that war disturbed a lot the presence of Argentine drivers in European scheme of motorsport since 1982, and evend change local Argentinian motorsport since then via the money from TV broadcasts (with Reutemann gone, slopped the interest in F1 then for casual people, but fortunately Argentina still has a lot of F1 fans). It was crucial to understand why Argentinian motorsport is in a nutshell of strong tin-top series.

Mekola, I have no idea where you think you are going with this post.

OldTony was merely illustrating to me that the European Union had more pressing problems to deal with than those of the desiccated gnome and his circus! A good point I thought!

[Mike Harte]

Mekola, might I humbly suggest that the Falklands conflict in 1982 has had no bearing on whether Argentine broadcasts F1 races. In fact I would go as far as to say that the conflict didn't and still doesn't stop any Argentinian driver from participating in F1. What stops them is a lack of money.

And may I suggest that the most likely reason that F1 is not shown on FTA in Argentina is that FOM has made it too expensive for any of your broadcasters to carry; the very same reason that it is slowly disappearing from FTA screens in Europe, including the UK.

[wnut]

FWIW

In the hands of a whole new EU Govt Dept.

http://www.racer.com/latest-stories/...s-eu-complaint