Chevron F3 B7?

deaninkc · 30 Oct 2006, 04:12 (Ref:1753240)

I have a formula race car that I'm trying to identify. It was raced in the USA by Mike Sauce in the early 70's as a Chevron. He bought it from pawn shop and did not know the prior history. At that point it had a Cosworth MAE. It has what seems to be a family resemblence to Chevron F3 cars but is a bit different than the B9 having a somewhat larger nose. It has a brake and clutch peddle set make up of British Ford bits and front rotors that are flat and directly bolted to aluminum hubs and look simlar to LeGrand units so they may have been added at some point. Any help would be appreciated. Here are some pictures

http://www.maniontech.com/Frtsusp.jpg

http://www.maniontech.com/Chevron2.jpg

http://www.maniontech.com/Chevron1.jpg

**John Turner** · 30 Oct 2006, 08:50 (Ref:1753354)

As with all these requests on individual cars, particularly interesting mystery cars as this is, I'm putting this out into the main history forum where it will probably get more widely read.

deaninkc · 31 Oct 2006, 16:19 (Ref:1754533)

Here are more photo's. Anyone have any ideas on where else I can look in indentifying this car.

http://www.maniontech.com/frame.jpg

http://www.maniontech.com/cockpit.jpg

http://www.maniontech.com/rearsusp.jpg

**John Turner** · 31 Oct 2006, 20:18 (Ref:1754695)

Come on guys, help deaninkc out here. Just the sort of challenge you relish!

Bryan Miller · 31 Oct 2006, 21:20 (Ref:1754755)

Can only suggest you contact Simon Hadfield and ask his assistance to verify if it is a Chevron .

deaninkc · 31 Oct 2006, 21:42 (Ref:1754765)

At this point I'm pretty sure its not a Chevron. I thought maybe it was a LeGrand but after contacting the expert on them, he indicates it is not. The chassis is very similar to a LeGrand and it has hat-less front brake rotors that were petty unique to the LeGrands. The steering arms are also attached at the top of the front uprights which also seems unique. It seems to be pretty standard British contruction and it had a MAE, Hewland and Anglia pedals, so I'm pretty sure it is British but it was so simliar to the LeGrand I thought it might be one. About the only thing I can do is comb through old pictures and hope someone might recognize it. Any ideas for picture sources would be appreciated.

Dean Manion

Alan Morgan · 31 Oct 2006, 21:56 (Ref:1754775)

The body work certainly looks very Chevronesque, but the uprights don't. Chevrons evolved slowly from year to year, and the B7-B9-B15-B17 all obviously came from the same gene pool. I'm pretty sure that the Chevron B7 had Alford and Alder front uprights.

I would say that the car is no older than '68 and no later than '70. The combination of magnesium front uprights and a high trackrod, combined with outboard dampers might help in your quest. The car certainly looks nicely made and very restorable. Its utimate value will, of course depend on the fruits of your search

allenbrown · 1 Nov 2006, 11:30 (Ref:1755182)

I agree with Bryan - this is the sort of thing Simon Hadfield is good at. Ted Walker also.

James Murray · 1 Nov 2006, 15:08 (Ref:1755353)

Is it possibly a Palliser/Winkleman?

deaninkc · 1 Nov 2006, 16:54 (Ref:1755437)

Can I get contact information for Walker and Hadfield?

allenbrown · 1 Nov 2006, 17:29 (Ref:1755468)

Use the PM system. They are both regulars here.

deaninkc · 1 Nov 2006, 18:01 (Ref:1755496)

Thanks, emails have been sent.

Simon Hadfield · 1 Nov 2006, 20:48 (Ref:1755638)

Sorry, cant help-however some observations-dampers I would place as being earlier than 68,strange front geometry I would suggest makes more likely to be a "homer" than a professional build and it seems to have cribbed features from several makes! All that said I just seem to have a nagging feeling that I have seen something like it somewhere, sometime!

Simon Hadfield · 1 Nov 2006, 20:52 (Ref:1755641)

I would also add that the calipers and the dampers will be date stamped-could you give us those?

Chris Townsend · 1 Nov 2006, 21:06 (Ref:1755647)

The nose on the bodywork could be that of a B14/B17 Chevron

Chris

Bryan Miller · 1 Nov 2006, 21:55 (Ref:1755680)

The front uprights look a bit McLaren like with the steering arm coming from the top of the upright , unlike Brabham , March etc.

Bryan.

Alan Morgan · 2 Nov 2006, 07:23 (Ref:1755930)

Quote:

Is it possibly a Palliser/Winkleman?

The body looks a bit like an early Palliser/Winkleman, but the front suspension is quite different. The mystery continues.....

Bryan Miller · 2 Nov 2006, 07:28 (Ref:1755935)

Please advise prize money allocated to first correct answer?

deaninkc · 2 Nov 2006, 18:11 (Ref:1756431)

If you look at the LeGrand page at http://www.f3history.co.uk/ (sorry it uses frames and could not make a direct link) it shows a MK5 LeGrand that has the same type of geometery and suspension design. It also has the same kind of hubs and flat rotors on the front. I contacted the owner of a Mk5 and he indicated the rear uprights were not the same also. Mine also has Girling calipers while the LeGrand normally used Airheart from the USA. It probably is something made from various bits but the all the componants seem to be professionally made with magnesium castings and very good looking welds and overall fabrication. Does anyone recognize the rear uprights? I'm also pretty sure it must have been a F3 car because of the MAE with the single throat manifold that was on it when Mike Sauce bought it. As far as a prize its probably worth $500 USD to me for a correct indentification with documentation.

Bryan Miller · 2 Nov 2006, 21:46 (Ref:1756579)

A couple of thoughts,

Built about 1967/68 , reasons, shocks are rubber bushed , not spherical bearings , chassis is for Hewland?? to be fitted with driveshafts outboard of rear frame .
Are there any markings on the steering rack , e.g. JK ?
No wheels , none with the kit ?
Master cylinders , brand ?? any ??

The wheel nuts look like aftermarket alloy road wheel types ,or the type used on F.Fords.

I suggest the identifying feature will be the angled tube at the bottom of the dash panel , never seen anything other that straight across tube on any other car.
Any instruments in grotty old cardboard boxes or other ''bits '' that came with the car .

deaninkc · 3 Nov 2006, 04:00 (Ref:1756775)

The rear calipers have a number that looks like C8(orCB) 049923 and a date of 12 2 63. The fronts end in 9920 can't make out the rest and a date of 21 10 60. They are Girling. I can't find a date on the shocks but I have a note it was 9 64. The shocks say AEON type 705 on the bumper, they have been painted so if someone can tell me where to look I can scrape the paint off. The wheels are packed away and I'll drag them out this weekend. As I remember they look similar to Revolutions and are pretty wide, like 8" in front and 10" in back. They have old Goodyear slicks mounted on them as used in SCCA racing in the 70's. The master cylinders are standard Girling with metal caps. The gearbox is a Hewland. I think its a MK4 but have not had it apart to check. It has driveshafts with regular sliders and u-joints not donuts. No instruments. The first know owner said it came with Smiths instruments including chronometeric (sp?) tach. I'll look at things a bit closer when I can get them in the light of day this weekend.

Bryan Miller · 3 Nov 2006, 06:27 (Ref:1756811)

On the main part of the shock body , probably under 11 coats of paint you should find say 7/ 67 or similar .
No need to pull the Hewland apart , , if the Hewland plate is still on the back it will say something like MK4-123 PU , if the plate has gone try checking the bearing carrier section , on the top near where the end cover bolts to the bearing carrier , it would say the same thing , probably.

deaninkc · 4 Nov 2006, 02:00 (Ref:1757484)

Bit of an update. Heard from Bob Winklemann and Andy Atipas of the Titan and Palliser registers and they confirmed although similar in some ways my car is not one of theirs. They are pretty convinced the frame was constructed by Arch Motors. I'll look for numbers on it tomorrow.

Haydn · 4 Nov 2006, 10:02 (Ref:1757632)

(.........................The rear calipers have a number that looks like C8(orCB) 049923 and a date of 12 2 63. The fronts end in 9920 can't make out the rest and a date of 21 10 60. They are Girling...............................)

From the numbers on the front calipers the front L.H. caliper full no. should be GB 049920 which designates a L.H. Girling AR Caliper of a 60's vintage. The Matching R.H. no. will be GB 049921. I am not positive on the rear number identification but they are possibly Girling NR.

Cheers

HaydnM

deaninkc · 4 Nov 2006, 20:19 (Ref:1757877)

I looked on the rear of the frame and it has no numbers but it has "ROSE MACH" stamped on the horizontal crossmember that holds the Hewland. Is anyone familar with a Rose Machine shop that constructed frames?

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