Budgets

[ss_collins]

Ok what are the budgets in UK Formula Ford, 1600 in a modern chassis, Zetec, and 1600 in a historic chassis.

I have heard much talk of UK FF being £100K + and was once quoted £2k to do a single meeting arrive and drive in 1600.

[runshaw]

This is a good link to the budgets required in UK Formula Ford: http://www.britishformulaford.co.uk/champ-costs.htm

[Century]

It is a good starting point, but the tyre prices are years out of date, and you will not get near the front on the number of test days they are suggesting. To do it properly 10 race meetings, between 20 and 30 test days, tyres when needed, it costs £100,000 plus VAT arrive and drive. This compares favourably with both Renault and BMW it terms of cost and more than favourably in terms of track time. It is also by far the largest grid this year, and although you could say that it lacks quality outside the top 10 runners, the same is true about the other 2 series as well, there is always a long tail in the field.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Ok what are the budgets in UK Formula Ford, 1600 in a modern chassis, Zetec, and 1600 in a historic chassis.

I have heard much talk of UK FF being £100K + and was once quoted £2k to do a single meeting arrive and drive in 1600.

FF1600 in a modern chassis - £15K for a complete race winning car, set of tyres every other race gives you plenty for testing. Entries £200 testing £200 fuel and accident damage.

Allow £600 every time you go out gives you cash left for brake pads engine rebuilds etc

£11,000 should get you through 10 race days and 5 test days running it yourself and no reason why you can't win with that.

[7UpJordan]

£2K for a single pay drive?? Damn... that's not good, that's just about dented my hopes of doing a few FF races next year... unless there are teams that don't charge as much.

[youngoldy]

In terms of a FF1600 meeting in say the NW championship, you have to look at £400 entry fee (4X 30min test session, plus 35mins runing time on raceday), £400 set of tyres, £80 of fuel, £30 set of brake pads. A top team will be charging around £1oo per day for the guy runing your car (basically 3 days = £300, 1 for preparing it, 2 at the circuit), then getting your car to the circuit etc adds to the already expensive price.

You then may have to pay for repairs. I know someone in the NW who did the '03 season on 15k, and that was everything from buying a car, entry fees, tyres, fuel, van rental and fuel, trailer rental, food, ARDS, license, Helmet, ovies, boots. That was him and one of his friends running him all year. It can bone for under 8k, if you already have a car, and loads of spare time...

[ffracer]

Based on my own experience I think Classic FF1600 must be the least costly 1600 championship to do. You can be competitive with a realistic budget in the £5k-£10k range for 12 rounds, provided you do the race-to-race mechanics yourself. This doesn't include the cost of the car - about £8k for a competitive one - but since these don't depreciate this is not too big an issue. Obviously if you have a lot of accidents it can get very expensive indeed...

[kartingdad]

I think you will find that the costs are the same for classic as for the more modern chassis.

Fuel, entry fees, tyres etc all cost the same, and providing you are driving them as hard, tyre costs should be comparable as well.

[vanrf81]

I competed in all 10 rounds of the Classic FF1600 championship in 2006.
Allowing £1200 for an engine rebuild not yet had, my total costs for the year were £6000. That includes 10 race entry fees, licence, BARC & CFFR membership, 5 half day tests, 10 tyres, all consumables inc oil / pads etc and all fuel for both the race & tow car. Granted I have a tidy car (probably worth about £10K) & a couple of mates helping out who asked for no more payment than cheeseburgers & stella & we had no accidents all season. We managed to win the Championship aswell ! How many Championships can be won on a £6K budget ? Newer 1600s might in theory cost the same to run but I would guess there are 2 main differences : 1) More money is spent on being competitve in newer FF1600 championships - on testing / tyres / engine rebuilds etc & 2) the cost of repairing damaged suspension on a newer car is more.
Conclusion : you get a lot more bang for your buck in the Classics !

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by vanrf81

the cost of repairing damaged suspension on a newer car is more.

Bet it isn't especially if your classic doesn't have push or pull rods. Bet wish bones steering arms and rose joints are ratherly the same. Could be looking at new damper and chassis repairs in a classic knocking a corner off, modern cars are designed not to need chassis repairs.

[Tim Draffan]

vanrf81, out of interest how much does championship registration and race entries cost you with the BARC?

[vanrf81]

Originally Posted by Triple J Motorsport

Bet it isn't especially if your classic doesn't have push or pull rods. Bet wish bones steering arms and rose joints are ratherly the same. Could be looking at new damper and chassis repairs in a classic knocking a corner off, modern cars are designed not to need chassis repairs.

maybe there is not much in it in cost of accident repair but could you win a championship on a £6K budget in a modern car ??

[vanrf81]

Originally Posted by Tim Draffan

vanrf81, out of interest how much does championship registration and race entries cost you with the BARC?

BARC membership is £105, race entries are about £190 - you would need to check with them.

[kartingdad]

We nearly (famous last words ) did, and maybe would have been in a better position save for some faulty Ohlins dampers that took nearly all season to sort.

[mattray]

Last year I managed 3 sets of tyres = £1200 race entries £165 x 9 = £1485 Fuel per race £50 x 9 = £450 (including travel) Engine rebuild £1400 Damper rebuild/check £50, no damage luckily and nicely for the Combe championship prise money which amounted to about £1000!

total of £3585 probably plus £3-400 for incidentals like oil, brake fluid, tape and anything I have forgotten!

[vanrf81]

okay - if you are matt rivett, you can win your local championship with zero testing & doing only 9 of the races for £4K !
for anyone getting into FF & deciding which championship to do - don't expect to do the same !

[FA73]

Originally Posted by vanrf81

I competed in all 10 rounds of the Classic FF1600 championship in 2006.
Allowing £1200 for an engine rebuild not yet had, my total costs for the year were £6000. That includes 10 race entry fees, licence, BARC & CFFR membership, 5 half day tests, 10 tyres, all consumables inc oil / pads etc and all fuel for both the race & tow car. Granted I have a tidy car (probably worth about £10K) & a couple of mates helping out who asked for no more payment than cheeseburgers & stella & we had no accidents all season. We managed to win the Championship aswell ! How many Championships can be won on a £6K budget ? Newer 1600s might in theory cost the same to run but I would guess there are 2 main differences : 1) More money is spent on being competitve in newer FF1600 championships - on testing / tyres / engine rebuilds etc & 2) the cost of repairing damaged suspension on a newer car is more.
Conclusion : you get a lot more bang for your buck in the Classics !

I did all the races in Classic Formula Ford this season in Class B. Looking at what my friend vanrf81 has said, the other thing to remember is that this championship features very close and more importantly very clean (usually!) racing with (TOUCH WOOD !!) relatively few expensive collisions. In fact I cannot recall a single instance of a Classic FF Driver being called up before the CofC this season...

[gaius ghinn]

Originally Posted by youngoldy

In terms of a FF1600 meeting in say the NW championship, you have to look at £400 entry fee (4X 30min test session, plus 35mins runing time on raceday), £400 set of tyres, £80 of fuel, £30 set of brake pads. A top team will be charging around £1oo per day for the guy runing your car (basically 3 days = £300, 1 for preparing it, 2 at the circuit), then getting your car to the circuit etc adds to the already expensive price.

You then may have to pay for repairs. I know someone in the NW who did the '03 season on 15k, and that was everything from buying a car, entry fees, tyres, fuel, van rental and fuel, trailer rental, food, ARDS, license, Helmet, ovies, boots. That was him and one of his friends running him all year. It can bone for under 8k, if you already have a car, and loads of spare time...

What teams would run a car [kent] for £100 a day?!! I've been paying far too much by the sound of it!

[test run]

How very gentlemanly!!

In all seriousness I have seen a lot of Classic FF1600 races and have to say the driver quality at the front end is exceptionally good and the racing very close.

With some inside knowledge I would fully agree with vanrf81 regarding the budget. Anyone one who has any dought go along to a Classic round in 2008 and talk to the guys that count "the drivers" or see them at the London Motor Sport Show where there will be a car on show 8 - 9th December 07 www.londonmotorsport.co.uk. The Classic Formula Ford Register also maintains a list of cars for sale as well, so there are no excuses for not getting involved.

In my opinion this formula represents the very best entry level single seater category in the UK today. Join them and see for yourself.

Have a nice day test run

[Jon Davis]

Another classic formula fordster with comment to add.

I ran a 73 Hawke DL11 in 2005 and 2006 and have line by line accounts showing my running costs for the season . . . running in the top 10 at most events and managing a second overall on one occasion. In short it works out at roughly £400 per event, 12 events £5,000. This is about as tight a budget as you can run, you could scrape a few more events out of the tyres but would notice a drop off in performance, and this requires you to do all the work on the car yourself and to either drive to and from the meeting in the same day or camp on site.

You could go mad . . . test at every event, freshen up your engine half way through the season, run new tyres at every event, stay in hotels etc. etc. etc. and I suggest this would increase your costs to say £14,000 tops. Not many people do this. I am also aware of chaps who pay about £300 per day, on top of the above costs to have someone come along a 'do everything' for them.

So lets say £5,000 to £18,000 with only small performance return from the £18,000 . . . just a little more comfortable!

Of course there is the start-up costs, winter rebuilds and accident damage to consider. Start-up costs are really just money tied up in hardware, the car will hold its value. Winter rebuilds can be as much or as little as you want to spend . . . I have taken a year out, due to the arrival or a son, and have spent all this year on a winter rebuild. The car has been stripped right down and checked all over, I have had a BBE engine rebuild completely overhauled chassis and various bits and bobs . . . rough estimate £4,000 and the car will be pretty much as good as new. Accident damage is impossible to generate a formula for. I have had to have one upright repaired, £150 ish, in two years but others have a strong magnetic pull towards the barriers. My theory on accident damage is . . . when the budget is gone the budget is gone.

The racing in the Classics is taken from the very top draw of clubby competition and more often than not results in the best action of the day. Don't take my word for it come along to any event next year . . . meet the guys and get a feel for the Gentleman racer style attitude. Or see us at the London Motorsport Show.

We are really keen you introduce new faces.

Jon D

[Asp]

Just wanted to say that it's nice to see so many new faces from the Classic FFord series joining in, so welcome to you all!

Carry on...

[SCOBER11]

Originally Posted by FA73

In fact I cannot recall a single instance of a Classic FF Driver being called up before the CofC this season...

Except me who was there almost every race, it ranged from speeding on the warm up lap to being to slow on the warm up lap all on the same day and then asked about being involved in a crash that happened in the saloon car race!

I think they just liked my Irish accent, won't mention budget as i had a lot of travelling to do!

[FA73]

Originally Posted by SCOBER11

Except me who was there almost every race, it ranged from speeding on the warm up lap to being to slow on the warm up lap all on the same day and then asked about being involved in a crash that happened in the saloon car race!

I think they just liked my Irish accent, won't mention budget as i had a lot of travelling to do!

I recall following you on the warm up lap at Snetterton - your tyre warming technique is pretty scary viewed close up !!

[MikeBurdon]

Just looking at my budget for last year - with the classics, I did 7 rounds for £5,300. That was £3,500 for entries, 2 tests and someone to spanner. £350 on petrol/oil/etc. The rest was spent on a new oil tank and gearbox welding/ casing replacement. I had an upside down moment at Brands Hatch, but the damage was limited to radius rods, of which I had some spares.
I stayed in travelodges cos I did all my camping in a previous career !
As far as the racing is concerned - it certainly looks close at the front from where I am ! The 'bunch' ahead of me are all ex champions/ experienced racers who know what they are doing. So when I find those extra seconds I'm sure I will be in safe/fun territory.

I would say roll on next year, but I am presently skint.

[A Quartermaine]

Originally Posted by gaius ghinn

What teams would run a car [kent] for £100 a day?!! I've been paying far too much by the sound of it!

Not too many