LM24 Le Mans Test Days?

Hugewally · 30 Nov 2008, 05:07 (Ref:2344099)

DSC is suggesting that the ACO might be considering cancelling the test days due to the current global economic situation (or at least making it optional)...

Aslak Vind · 30 Nov 2008, 07:54 (Ref:2344127)

Yeah well that will help, especially when the big teams test anyway. Just on other tracks like the HTTP...

isynge · 30 Nov 2008, 13:16 (Ref:2344217)

My core question with this is realistically how much money would teams save by not having the test day? It strikes me as a pretty cost effective way of getting some running prior to the race itself.

Fine, make it optional but I genuinely don't see this as being much more than tokenism.

The Badger · 30 Nov 2008, 15:06 (Ref:2344254)

The teams will be there anyway ...... a few days later ..... cant see that it would make much differance to a team , except to boost up the accomodation and bar bill !!!

HORNDAWG · 30 Nov 2008, 17:36 (Ref:2344323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugewally

DSC is suggesting that the ACO might be considering cancelling the test days due to the current global economic situation (or at least making it optional)...

Are the test days offered to the teams at a discount rate to what a normal track rental fee would be, or free? If either is the case, it is a bad deal for the teams for it to be cancelled. It should be offered as an option IMO.

L.P.

Aslak Vind · 30 Nov 2008, 18:46 (Ref:2344358)

Well, the cost will still be tires, fuel, parts, rebuilds of transmissions and engines.

The bartap will the least of the problems..

HORNDAWG · 30 Nov 2008, 19:01 (Ref:2344367)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Well, the cost will still be tires, fuel, parts, rebuilds of transmissions and engines.

So what? If teams need the track time to prepare for the 24hrs, they will incur those costs regardless. If it is offered as an option then it's up to the teams individually!

L.P.

WMUCarGuy · 30 Nov 2008, 19:44 (Ref:2344390)

If you have to go to the test days as things are now, you have to pay for your team to be in France for about 3 weeks which would be a HUGE expense on top of running the car. Why not have the test day, but have it be the weekend before the race so that teams can cut down a big chunk of the "other expenses" and still get the running time they want.

WMUCarGuy · 30 Nov 2008, 19:47 (Ref:2344393)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

So what? If teams need the track time to prepare for the 24hrs, they will incur those costs regardless. If it is offered as an option then it's up to the teams individually!

L.P.

I kinda see it as everyone being in the same boat. If everyone doesn't get to do the test day, everyone would theoretically be just as unprepared as anyone else. I don't think the test days are absolutely crucial. And if they are, have them be the week of the race, or give the teams more practice/qualifying time than they do now and cut down on the rest of the expenses teams incur from 3 weeks in France.

HORNDAWG · 30 Nov 2008, 21:13 (Ref:2344424)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

I kinda see it as everyone being in the same boat. If everyone doesn't get to do the test day, everyone would theoretically be just as unprepared as anyone else.

Sorry, that dog don't hunt!

Quote:

I don't think the test days are absolutely crucial.

So a team or driver that is new or only been a time or two, needs no more time on the track than Audi/T.K. to know it?

Quote:

And if they are, have them be the week of the race, or give the teams more practice/qualifying time than they do now and cut down on the rest of the expenses teams incur from 3 weeks in France.

I agree with moving the testing sessions and the race closer together but that is not the subject of the post. Either cancelling or making the testing non mandatory was.

L.P.

isynge · 30 Nov 2008, 21:54 (Ref:2344450)

I've had a day to mull this over and I'm still a bit perplexed.

The test day is two weeks before the race, which strikes me as being just about enough to allow teams that trash their cars or discover some fundamental issues to fix them before the race itself. I'm also wondering if the marginal cost for a team's budget to spend that extra week in France in terms of the Chateau rental etc is going to be a make or break amount (although happy to be proven wrong on this).

For this year I'd also be really surprised if the serious entrants hadn't already made their plans for their time in France, and would be equally astonished if they could get refunds on accommodation, travel etc.

As I say, this feels like tokenism and as DSC suggests, flying a kite to see what the response looks like. I'd be happy to wager a small amount of money that come May 31 we'll see a full house on the track at Le Mans.

**Aysedasi** · 1 Dec 2008, 14:16 (Ref:2344935)

What is the cost to the ACO I wonder of having the circuit open for Test Day?

Speed-King · 1 Dec 2008, 15:31 (Ref:2344970)

Test day is cancelledhttp://www.endurance-info.com/articl...d=6827&thold=0

gwyllion · 1 Dec 2008, 15:40 (Ref:2344972)

In English: http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/ac...D_3616_gb.html

The359 · 1 Dec 2008, 16:01 (Ref:2344989)

It seems, from the English wording on the ACO website, that the race schedule is changed as well. Wednesday is a test-only day, and only Thursday being qualifying?

Javi · 1 Dec 2008, 16:25 (Ref:2345006)

Hmmm, and how are they going to qualify new drivers??? On wednesday only?? If they fail, teams have no time to look for another one...
Cancelling test day will be a major disadvantage to any new team or new car, that will have virtually no time to improve anything or solve any issues...
Maybe it´s cost cutting, but... who knows???

The Badger · 1 Dec 2008, 16:27 (Ref:2345008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

If it is offered as an option then it's up to the teams individually

I think its an option "IF" the team has been there in the past few years . Its the same for the drivers . If the respective team has drivers who havent been there before , then the drivers need to pre-qualify in order to obtain a pass for qualification real in June .

Fogelhund · 1 Dec 2008, 16:31 (Ref:2345012)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Hmmm, and how are they going to qualify new drivers??? On wednesday only?? If they fail, teams have no time to look for another one...
Cancelling test day will be a major disadvantage to any new team or new car, that will have virtually no time to improve anything or solve any issues...
Maybe it´s cost cutting, but... who knows???

If a team isn't prepared, or requires improvements, should they really be there in the first place?

GT6 · 1 Dec 2008, 16:38 (Ref:2345017)

Wednesday at Le Mans is all about arriving and seeing the cars for the first time that year, so what is the new Wednesday going to be, are they qualifing the drivers, cars or just testing.

If the full track is not open then perhaps we will wait until Thursday to go down.

mattcat · 1 Dec 2008, 16:43 (Ref:2345022)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Hmmm, and how are they going to qualify new drivers??? On wednesday only?? If they fail, teams have no time to look for another one...

Realistically, how often does a driver fail to qualify to be able to take part in the event?

Fogelhund · 1 Dec 2008, 16:46 (Ref:2345023)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattcat

Realistically, how often does a driver fail to qualify to be able to take part in the event?

Indeed... and perhaps teams ought to think heavily about such marginal drivers..

Javi · 1 Dec 2008, 16:51 (Ref:2345027)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If a team isn't prepared, or requires improvements, should they really be there in the first place?

Well, look at Epsilon last year. They went to test day to discover that their aerodynamic package was inadaquately balanced, but then have the possibility to improve and have a respectable show in qualify/race. Cadillac in 2002 was about 10-15 seconds off the pace in test day but managed to improve a lot of seconds after that... Did they not deserve to be there?
Teams have no other choice to test at Le Mans in the entire year...
Imagine for a moment that Toyota went to LM this year with the hybrid. If they did not do well on wednesday... i would still think they should be there anyhow. New cars and teams NEED testing...

Javi · 1 Dec 2008, 16:56 (Ref:2345031)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattcat

Realistically, how often does a driver fail to qualify to be able to take part in the event?

Second consecutive answer

not very often, but spanish Angel Burgueño crashed the ASM Lola during test day 2006 and did not qualify. He was and is a proven driver but could not race that year. ASM had to look for other driver and managed to get Warren Hughes for race week.

I agree most of the times a good driver will qualify anyhow, but imagine also your "good car and team" has problems and you, good driver, can simply not run with the car. These things can happen...

HORNDAWG · 1 Dec 2008, 17:05 (Ref:2345038)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

I think its an option "IF" the team has been there in the past few years . Its the same for the drivers . If the respective team has drivers who havent been there before , then the drivers need to pre-qualify in order to obtain a pass for qualification real in June .

Hmm, then I guess I mis-understood this bold emphasized paragraph in the ACO's Le Mans SR;

Quote:

All competitors selected by the Selection Committee as well as the automatically selected competitors, must compulsorily take part in the Test Day.

from Art. 3.6 on page 2

L.P.

Fogelhund · 1 Dec 2008, 17:17 (Ref:2345045)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javi

Well, look at Epsilon last year. They went to test day to discover that their aerodynamic package was inadaquately balanced, but then have the possibility to improve and have a respectable show in qualify/race. Cadillac in 2002 was about 10-15 seconds off the pace in test day but managed to improve a lot of seconds after that... Did they not deserve to be there?
Teams have no other choice to test at Le Mans in the entire year...
Imagine for a moment that Toyota went to LM this year with the hybrid. If they did not do well on wednesday... i would still think they should be there anyhow. New cars and teams NEED testing...

Is LM itself the only place to test?

Pro teams such as you mention should have tested, or run simulations. If they screw up, too bad, come back next year, and race a full season to sort your car out.

Did Cadillac race enough to prepare themselves for 2002 with a new car? They only raced Sebring pre-LM, and showed themselves to not be prepared there either... though post LM, they did run some races, and finally showed some pace and reliability... too little, too late.

As far as Epsilon is concerned.. it would appear that they found their balance on the Thursday of qualifying, still being off the pace on Wednesday. This isn't a charity show, either you are competitive, or not... just like every other race... There aren't weeks to prepare for Spa, or Sebring, or... You'll also notice that the top teams NEVER have these types of issues, the ones that are truely at the sharp end of the field.

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