MARSHALS' NEEDS!

[fastmart]

Hi All!
As most of you other marshals will agree the FIA and MSA seem to do everything towards safety for the drivers and spectators and us to an extent, but seem to overlook the conditions we have to put up with behind the armco as we're trying to get to an incident as quickly as possible lugging 15kg's of extinguisher.
Is this an issue to be brought up to the FIA and MSA or each individual circuit?
The HSE are getting involed more and more in things and the last thing we need is them getting there grubby mits on our wonderful sport.

[Red_08]

Personally speaking, if I was on post and the area that I'm working in behind the Armco etc is not safe, in my eyes, then my first port of call would be my Post Chief.

If it was something I thought about after an event, I'd have a word with my club representative for the area that the circuit is in. They could bring it up with the circuit people in a very constructive way.

[Daniel Pinnegar]

I've been thinking about this a lot since yesterday when I had a vrey near miss with a Lamborghini Gallordo into the Armco at Brands Hatch inbetween post 11 and 12.

I was thinking about tyre barriers being a part of all sections of the circuit around the edges, surely there are enough tyres in the UK that aren't being used!!!

Do you actually think that anyhing would happen to make safety standars increase though if we told the governing body etc??

[fastmart]

This is something that i have mentioned on a thew occations, just maybe not to the right poeple! and i know it varies from circuit to circuit and post to post, but should'nt we have a standard aswell?
They dont let a meeting go ahead if there's a safety problem! (well apart from donnington!!)
Does it have to take a marshal to fall and get hurt (heaven forbid) before something is done?

[Daniel Pinnegar]

Yeah, I mean I didn't think that the post we were on was going to get any/much action that day because it was about a 3rd of the way down a straight! I'm just thankfull that I moved further away from that area a minute before.

The armco was pushed back easily 1-2 meters!!

[Col_Rugby]

Maybe this thread might have some interest to you

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...&highlight=hse


Col

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by fastmart

This is something that i have mentioned on a thew occations, just maybe not to the right poeple! and i know it varies from circuit to circuit and post to post, but should'nt we have a standard aswell?
They dont let a meeting go ahead if there's a safety problem! (well apart from donnington!!)
Does it have to take a marshal to fall and get hurt (heaven forbid) before something is done?

All circuits have to comply to strict safety regulations to achieve the standards laid down by the MSA. Otherwise licenses would not be issued (Blue Book D1). This has been the problem with Donington ( 1 N ). If you don't feel safe in the position you're allocated, then tell your post chief. If something can be done, then it will probably be sorted.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Daniel Pinnegar

The armco was pushed back easily 1-2 meters!!

Armco works by deforming to absorb energy, I always mention this at briefing and prefer marshals do not stand directly behind it, however the way many circuits and posts are designed there sometimes isn't the option.

[Daniel Pinnegar]

Yeah I can understand that! The issue in that particular instance was that a car had gone off previously and we were standing near it, in case it burst into flames, but not soo close that if another car came off we weren't in direct line of fire.

We were in a place that we didn't expect cars to come off the track and the gap between the edge of the fence and the armco was very narrow in itself.

With hindsight I believe that we should have got the 1st car out of the way and gone back to the post where the safety was better. Is this a good idea or not??

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Daniel Pinnegar

Yeah I can understand that! The issue in that particular instance was that a car had gone off previously and we were standing near it, in case it burst into flames, but not soo close that if another car came off we weren't in direct line of fire.

Where one car comes off another will surely follow!

Originally Posted by Daniel Pinnegar

With hindsight I believe that we should have got the 1st car out of the way and gone back to the post where the safety was better. Is this a good idea or not??

If the driver is out and the car isn't smoking or steaming or showing any other signs that it will go woof then leave a bottle or two close by and then retreat back to post.

[Daniel Pinnegar]

Thanks, I'll definitely do that in future!!

That was the first big accident I've been involved in!

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

Armco works by deforming to absorb energy, I always mention this at briefing and prefer marshals do not stand directly behind it, however the way many circuits and posts are designed there sometimes isn't the option.

Which is why i hate 13A at Brands, no where to go if something does happen...

Originally Posted by Daniel Pinnegar

Yeah, I mean I didn't think that the post we were on was going to get any/much action that day because it was about a 3rd of the way down a straight! I'm just thankfull that I moved further away from that area a minute before.

The armco was pushed back easily 1-2 meters!!

Guess you didn't see A1GP last year then, same happened to us as AUS and PAK cars clipped wheels and ended up in a big mess down by 13A and 14

[Bezzers1986]

Originally Posted by Daniel Pinnegar

Thanks, I'll definitely do that in future!!

That was the first big accident I've been involved in!

I saw how close you guys were, my worry is that where I was flagging at Post 11 and other posts at Brands (post 5 for example) you are behind the arnco and have no other option. If the Lambo had hit at the post and not further down we would have been lucky to have scarpered far enough or quick enough.

Maybe a tire barrier in front of the post at least is needed.

[Norbert]

Originally Posted by Daniel Pinnegar

I was thinking about tyre barriers being a part of all sections of the circuit around the edges, surely there are enough tyres in the UK that aren't being used!!!

Tyres are used in front of armco where the majority of impacts are at right angles (or close) to the direction of travel. In cases where the majority of impacts are at a shallower angle tyres are not used to allow the car to have a 'glancing' impact and slide down the barrier.

Obviously there will always be cases where head on impacts to the barrier happen as the exception but the requirement for tyres walls is dictated by the most likely angle of impact.

[Stephen Green]

To answer the original question, yes, the BMMC are actively involved in conjunction with the MSA to improve the safety standards for marshals at all circuits. Several Council members sit on various committees within the MSA and have a voice in what is done up to a point.

As with many things in life, changes happen over a period of time and have to include discussion with the circuit owners. You will often find that when work on a particular piece of track is undertaken during the 'closed' season, marshals walkways are improved/made larger/levelled. There is also the issue of costs, none more so than in the current economic climate, which has to be bourne on mind.

I would suggest that if you have a particular problem, you write to your regional chairman and ask if it can be brought up at the next Council meeting and hopefully then passed to the MSA on your behalf. If we work as a team and go through the correct proceedure, we are more likely to succeed.

It might be worth you visiting our website www.marshals.co.uk as our Chairman, Chris Hobson, often posts discussions that have taken place at meetings with the MSA

[Steven Humphrey]

Never been to Brands (as a marshal) so can't really comment on the conditions there but one of the first things I do when I get to a post for the first time is have a good look around for all possible means of escape, both on the bank and trackside. Also, I look for any possible trip hazards, holes etc-anything that could get in the way in the heat of the moment.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by arnage arnie

one of the first things I do when I get to a post for the first time is have a good look around for all possible means of escape, both on the bank and trackside. Also, I look for any possible trip hazards, holes etc-anything that could get in the way in the heat of the moment.

I do that too - the problem is remembering this information for the rest of the day/weekend

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

I do that too - the problem is remembering this information for the rest of the day/weekend

Know what you mean-especially when the I/O plays 'musical marshals' after every 2 or 3 sessions!

[haystacks]

So you don,t get complacent, musical marshals does come in quite handy,also you get to see a different views of said track.

[Col_Rugby]

I agree with Haystacks. I'd be pretty peeved if the post didn't have a move about after a couple of sessions. Have to take the rough with the smooth sometimes.

[Moosehead]

Nothing to do with armco.............

Toilets.......as a driver and spectator I can't recall seeing any toilets sited at/near to marshals posts at any UK circuits I've been to which is most. How do you guys get on??? BTW I marshalled the Mallory hairpin a couple of yrs back from the post infield, only chance for a pee was lunch time, is that the norm?? Anyway, what brought this on was that I was watching the ALMS on tv the other day from Long Beach, California which is a temporary street circuit. It was very clear that virtually every marshal post had its own portaloo. They certainly seem to look after their guys a lot better over there.

[morwenna]

Depends where you are. Castle Combe has toilet blocks all round the circuit, so you are never too far away, pretty much the same with Silverstone. Thruxton has portaloos on the posts at the back of the circuit, so there's usually somewhere to go. I've heard that girls don't get posted on the GP loop at Brands for that reason - boys can get round the problem more easily!! Although the norm can also be wait until lunch -portaloos aren't necessarily a good option when you're a girl on post with a load of lads!!

[Col_Rugby]

I was at Brands for the opening BSB round & was on post 7. Luckily we had a portaloo in the area at the botton of Paddock Hill which is used for the TV studio, lorries, sweeper etc.
I say luckily until it was visited on the first morning when it was found that it was still in the same state as the final meeting of the previous season. Certainly cleared the sinus's out!!!
But as soon as it was reprted MSV were immediately onto it & 2 more clean & fresh ones were in place as soon as was practically possible. Top marks to MSV again.
As Morweena says it is a little "easier" for us males to find somewhere to hide, in my case it only needs a small twig!!

[White flag man]

Post 15, at Brands, has the biggest and closest toilet facilities available, male only. You just head for the trees!

[Steven Humphrey]

Snetterton has a portaloo at every post-though some are best not used while cars are on circuit (I'm thinking Sears in). It can be a problem at Rockingham though.