McLaren F1 rear wing stall device

[ger80]

Just wondering if a device like this http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8558279.stm could be interesting for sports cars too, especially thinking about the long straights in Le Mans

[Victor_RO]

It uses the shark fin, and I'm not sure that this kind of aero appendix is actually legal on LMPs.

(Which is great, aesthetically speaking...)

[ger80]

Think the shark fin gets mandatory for 2011 to avoid flying LMPs - so I would make no sense to ban it in 2010 and the make it mandatory in 2011.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by ger80

Think the shark fin gets mandatory for 2011 to avoid flying LMPs - so I would make no sense to ban it in 2010 and the make it mandatory in 2011.

I've heard nothing about shark fins being mandated for LMP starting 2011 to curb yaw incidents. In fact the preliminary 2011 regulations I have seen make no mention of any major changes to the aero package for 2011 and beyond which leads one to wonder if the ACO has any plans at all.

[The Badger]

Moretti used that aero , as did Euromotorsports on a 333SP years ago at Le Mans . Not sure if it was effective or not ?

Supposed to be for straight line stability .

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Moretti used that aero , as did Euromotorsports on a 333SP years ago at Le Mans . Not sure if it was effective or not ?

Supposed to be for straight line stability .

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ferrari333-4.html

[ger80]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

I've heard nothing about shark fins being mandated for LMP starting 2011 to curb yaw incidents. In fact the preliminary 2011 regulations I have seen make no mention of any major changes to the aero package for 2011 and beyond which leads one to wonder if the ACO has any plans at all.

Hm, tought I read it somewhere - maybe a dream?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by ger80

Hm, tought I read it somewhere - maybe a dream?

Just did some asking around and it would appear that any major aero changes will not occur until 2012. Trying to dig in to see if any specifics have been discussed.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Just did some asking around and it would appear that any major aero changes will not occur until 2012. Trying to dig in to see if any specifics have been discussed.

I think that means changes beyond what has already been agreed, removing the DDD for 2011 has been agreed for some time and was confirmed several times during todays coverage on the BBC including from the lips of Martin Whitmarsh who hopefully has some idea what is going on

[Dead-Eye]

This isn't the F1 forum

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

This isn't the F1 forum

True enough, but the issue was raised in a sports car context, so as long as it stays on topic, that's fine by me!

[ger80]

Dead-Eye refers to the post from fourwheeldrift.
So question one is if the shark fin would be legal and two if it would be legal to use this McLaren device. A few mph additional top speed would for sure help in LM.

[isynge]

The shark fin got coverage in Autosport in late December / early January if I remember rightly. It was illustrated with a pretty nasty looking photoshop job of an R15 with the fin.

Initially I loathed the idea, but then remembered that one of the cars that first captivated me with sportscars was the Kremer CK-5, so maybe a dorsal fin isn't all bad.

[Tim the Grey]

CK5? Yeeeurgh.

Nuff said?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

CK5? Yeeeurgh.

Nuff said?

Nope, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. The 10 year that saw it in the pages of GPI in 1982 thought it looked like a spaceship and infinitely better than the single seater race cars seen until then.

Throw in little elements like it was the car Bellof got his first sportscar ride in (Spa '82 if I remember rightly) and it's got additional appeal, then acid test it by a quick revisit to Racing Sportscars and it still looks like a good car.

And if we're disagreeing about the CK5 how about the Sauber SHS C6? It too had a bit of a fin effect going on.

Honestly, while I don't think the F1 cars with fins look brilliant, other applications (some Indycars from a while back) work well, and I figure that with a bit of creativity an LMP designer could make something work.

[skeeskirrt]

Aren't the LMPs required to have two roll-hoops? Shark fins?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

I think that means changes beyond what has already been agreed, removing the DDD for 2011 has been agreed for some time and was confirmed several times during todays coverage on the BBC including from the lips of Martin Whitmarsh who hopefully has some idea what is going on

I'm referring to LMP regulations. If you read the above post there's a mention of shark fins for LMPs to reduce yaw flip incidents. The ACO has indicated further changes to limit that possibility but so far the 2011 regulations have no mention of anything new. Speaking with an engineer off the record, the indication is that these changes are being pushed to 2012.

[Dead-Eye]

So we have a major change in engine regs for next year and then possibly another major change in chassis regs the year after...

[Tim the Grey]

It is as costly, but spread over 2 years, not 1?

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

So we have a major change in engine regs for next year and then possibly another major change in chassis regs the year after...

Isn't adding a dorsal fin a simple body mod, not so much of a chasiss change

[Tim the Grey]

If it is required to take a lateral load, to provide anti yaw stability, then you may need to uprate what/how it fastens to the rest of the car?
So it may not be that simple a job?
Plus, you may need something different on a coupe to a barchetta...

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

It is as costly, but spread over 2 years, not 1?

I don't think it's that simple. You're re-engineering the cars for one year and again for the next instead of being able to buy a car and race it, essentially unchanged, for several seasons.
Also, the way I interpreted Mike's post, it's not only a fin but possibly more major changes as well.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by isynge

The shark fin got coverage in Autosport in late December / early January if I remember rightly. It was illustrated with a pretty nasty looking photoshop job of an R15 with the fin.

Initially I loathed the idea, but then remembered that one of the cars that first captivated me with sportscars was the Kremer CK-5, so maybe a dorsal fin isn't all bad.

Thanks mate, will check Autosport tonight - already tought I am getting mad.

[ger80]

Autosport 28th Jan 2010:

LMP1 shark fin delayed until 2011.

But thats about the mandatory one with a definied size and position, maybe teams still could use one?

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

I'm referring to LMP regulations. If you read the above post there's a mention of shark fins for LMPs to reduce yaw flip incidents. The ACO has indicated further changes to limit that possibility but so far the 2011 regulations have no mention of anything new. Speaking with an engineer off the record, the indication is that these changes are being pushed to 2012.

Sorry I think I was lost, don't normally stray far from F1 or sprint/Hillclimb discussions .