2-stroke riders on 4-strokes

[Redneck]

You may have already had this discussion. It's been a while since I was here.

How do you think the shift to 990cc 4-strokers will affect the present GP riders. Who do you think will do well and who will flop?

I think the younger riders will fare well. We will probably see several World Superbike riders make a successful shift over. I also think some of the older European riders like Biaggi will not do so hot. When was the last time Biaggi rode a 4-stroke bike, if ever? Has he ever ridden the 24 Hours of Suzuka? If so, how did they do?

[elephino]

It's hard to tell how riders will do. I don't think it will affect the likes of Rossi and Biaggi though.

As for the Suzuka 24hours, I don't remember hearing about that race. Le Mans 24hr and Suzuka 8hr I have though.

[Redneck]

Somebofy pass another beer... 'efore I begin to make sense.

[elephino]

Pass one over here...

How about a Suzuka 24 hour..be a good challenge.

[Redneck]

It would scare away many of the top riders that race the 8 hour. They would have to do without their beauty sleep.

[Alan Jones]

I reckon they will do fine. The 4 stroke technology has been a revelation in the motocross world with equal , if not better acceleration than the old 2 strokes. I went to a meet last year and all the top riders in the 250 and 500 classes seemed to be on these new 4 stroke bikes and were leading the pack.I can't back this up with any hard data, but surely a little testing and a couple of hundred laps and any of them should be fairly competitive .

maybe guys like McCoy might find it a little hard if they aren't as inclined to spin the back wheel as a 500.

[Robbieracer]

Hi all. There are three things relating to the 2/4 stroke copmarison.
1. power. The new bikes will have more, over a wider range. Therefore more riders will be able to get a grip on them. The degree and kind of response can be engineered into the system via electronic control.
2. Motorcycle weight: those used to the current bikes will not have much adjustment. The new GP1's may wiegha little more, however they will carry far less fuel.
3. Engine braking. Processor controlled throttle is old news, and very well understood. There is no reason for a GP1 4 stroke to have any engine braking at all, if it has been programmed and correctly tested. This is completely seperate from any traction control issues
:-)
Rob

[Gerrit]

The only way four-strokes can compete is by twisting the rules heavily in their favour. The MX four-stroke 250s are running against two-stroke 125s- big deal, and no comparison. Build a four-stroke 500 four that can beat two-stroke 500s in roadracing consistently- that WOULD impress me. And can anybody explain satisfactorily why four-strokes "deserve" double the two-stroke displacement, virtually unlimited constructional freedom and more sound than two-strokes? Racing has always been "the rules are the same for everybody". Now, they clearly are not.

[Robbieracer]

Riders who think, and are flexible in their approach should be able to ride both equally well.
I do not know if Biaggi is in this category.

If the 8 hour is any guide, it looks like Vallentino is, along with Barros and a few others..

Fourstroke 990 cc motors can easily make 245 hp, with a wide powerband, so don't ever think that spinning up a rear wheel is ever going to be a problem!

Where does this figure come from? Current F1 engines make about 855-865 Hp according to respected analysts, that is about 86 hp per 300cc piston.
Three of these would obviously make 265 hp, at only 900cc.
As the Americans say, you do the math!
In theory a "four" could be good for over 290hp, still at 900cc.

So power is a zero issue, the cheapest, lightest power in the best package might be the aim- unless you are Honda, who believe they can be different with efficiency :-)

The biggest reaction has not been spotted by most people:
not what will GP1 to do superbikes, but what will GP1 do to 250 and 125 GP's?
We now have two junior, lower, or feeder classes which are fundementally different to GP1, and the gap in funding will increase massively.

And remember that Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha , and two or three others all intend to have a go.

Of these, most have direct formula one technology available:
Aprilia (through Cosworth) BMW, Ducati (through ferrari), Honda, Yamaha (who had there own F1 engined made in the UK),and Sauber, who hope to sell engines.

GP1 may drag Grand Prix motorcycling into areas it has never been, fuelled by the marketing dollar.

The sport will be for 45 mins on a sunday, the rest is just commerce

Rob

[Gerrit]

First of all, BMW have repeatedly stated they will NOT join- scratch one company that was a "dead cert" to join.
Ah yes, Yamaha's four-stroke success. They were a total failure in F1, and what did they achieve in WSB? Precisely.
Sauber? So far no takers. King Kenny did hold talks with Sauber, but engines alone would have cost more than his TOTAL team budget when he was manager of the Marlboro Yamaha team. This gets you engines ONLY- you also need such minor details as chassis, suspension, tyres, wheels, brakes etc. Oh, and of course riders, mechanics, transport, travel expenses. All this to achieve- what? At the end of the day, it is still the same title, but you are spending much, much more in trying to win it.
Ducati? According to their own figures, they made a net profit of $ 10 million over 2000. But initial development costs of their new Wonder Weapon is going to cost $ 30 million, plus another 10 million in annual running costs. In other words, spend three times your annual net profit in building something, then your annual net profit each year just to run the thing. How long do YOU think Ducati can keep this up?
Only the largest companies can afford this madness- but how long? This whole four-stroke idea is sheer madness financially, and won't make racing any more attractive than it is now. Within a few years, we will be seeing empty grids. Is this progress?