Lotus 59 & 69

[Chris Townsend]

Matter of time I suppose, but we've not had much discussion of this staple of early 70s F3 and Atlantic.

Can someone help me with information about the Lotus 69 and the difference between the 1970 and 71 models [designated 71/69 on the chassis plate]. First question is was the 1970 model a space-frame and the 71 model something else – I presume a plated space-frame rather than a monocoque.

I’m trying to work out the histories of Lotus 69s in Atlantic and FB [not helped by many 59s used in the formula being updated to 69 spec. My chief interest at the moment is in Ian Mawby’s cars used in Britain.

In 1972 Mawby uses an ex Wisell 1971 car which was built to F.B spec but used in F2, [71/69.FB.8] but at a Libre race at Brands in November he ‘writes off’ the car at the start. However the following week he’s back for another Libre race. In MN 14.12.72 Mawby says that he won in ‘the ex Wisell spaceframe that he completed after his start line shunt the previous weekend’. Given that he is talking about a replacement car, which is also ‘ex Wisell’, are we talking about him using another Wisell car rather than his 1971 model?
Funnily enough this was available for him because Stephen Choularton had used in Atlantic in 1972 Wisell’s first 1971 car [69.F2.1] [described as ex Fittipaldi – who used it in 1970 – and Pau winner, Wisell 1971 – and had it for sale from mid October 1972. This would be the earlier type of the car, and presumably a spaceframe where the other wasn't [exactly...]

Which ever car it is Mawby has another really big accident at Snetterton in 73 and the remains were sold to John Bicht who used them as the basis of his Swift [perhaps John can confirm this] and eventually taken to the USA.

Reminiscences, observations, complete Lotus build records all appreciated.

Chris

[davemorganfan]

Now I'm by no means an expert, so take everything I say with a health warning attached.

The spaceframe 69s used from in F3 and Atlantic '71 onwards were, I think, essentially the same as the 1970 version. They looked a bit different as the external profile of the chassis was altered to accomodate bag-type fuel tanks (the same thing happened with Brabham when they updated the BT28 to become the BT35).

F2 cars were, of course, something else. They were monocoque from 1970 onwards. That was the true 69, and it was for F2 only (until later life). The other 69s were really updated 59s. It always struck me as being a bit odd that the spaceframe jobs were suddenly called 69s by virtue of acquiring the pointy front end and other new body work from the monocoque car. Perhaps there were some other changes too, but I suspect they were not very substantial. And does anyone remember the Formula Ford version - as won in a competition by one Tiff Needell?

I saw Steve Choularton's car at an Atlantic race at Oulton. My memory of things from those days is fading fast, but I am ALMOST certain it looked like the monocoque 69, which was rounded in shape and not the angular re-tanked spaceframe type as described above. So it seems like a pukka ex-F2 car, and quite possibly ex-Wissel, Fittipaldi or whatever.

[Chris Townsend]

DMF

Choularton's car was certainly ex F2, run in 1969 and 70, so would then have been a monocoque. The Wisell car run by LIRA later in 1970 was built originally as FB, so might have been a spaceframe. This was the first [and perhaps only] car used by Mawby. What you say suggests that if he did build a new car, he didn't do so from the Choularton car, which is perhaps, then, the Don Robinson hillclimb car.

Chris

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Reminiscences, observations, complete Lotus build records all appreciated.

Does that mean you have partial Lotus build records? I have a few bits I'd be happy to transcribe if they would be helpful.

Allen

[Steve Wilkinson]

Can anyone provide chassis information about a Lotus 69-F2 fitted with a 2.0 Ford BDG and driven by Clive Astley at Longridge sprint on 18/06/78?

It is the only Lotus 69 to have taken part in the British Sprint Championship!

Ta!

[Ted Walker]

Did not Chris Morris use a 69 in sprints and hill climbs/????? I think it was the Moonaker car.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Ted - I think you are right. I seem to remember it had the full Moonraker body work. As per previous post on this thread the Astley 69 is the only one to compete in the British Sprint Championship (i.e. Morris never registered).

[jamesl]

Is this the same Chris Morris who raced in monoposto in the early 1980's in the exCarlo Giorgio/Terry Mills March?

[Ted Walker]

Yes the same chap.Was rebuilding a 911 last time we spoke.

[allenbrown]

Just to bring this back to life, here's a link to an older Lotus 69 thread on TNF.

Chris - any chance of an update on where you've got to?

Allen

[John Turner]

Albert Clement's Lotus 69 at Brands Superprix, 6 May, 2006

[Bryan Miller]

Oh goodie, now I get to decipher all my notes from bits and pieces and stuff from Allen and Chris and enter it in a coherent form.
Yes please keep the 59's away from the 69's .

[allenbrown]

I've just started to reach Lotus 69 territory in the libre research and have found an interesting comment tucked away in the report (AS 23 Jul 1970 p45) on the Ingliston libre on 19 July 1970. It says that "Johnny Blades was having trouble with his now 69-ised F2 Lotus". So how many F2 Lotuses did he have?!

Allen

[allenbrown]

A good picture of the car Autosport 13 Aug 1970 p23. Race Report 1970 has a typo over the chassis number of Blades 59B when it appeared early in 1970 but I assume the number 59-F2-21 in F1R can be relied upon. I'll keep a close eye on Blades' libre entries from here on.

I know a second opinion is always useful so, as I'm in here anyway, Race Report gives the 1970 Lotus 69s as:
Fittipaldi 69-F2-1
Ikuzawa 69-F2-2
Potocki 69-F2-3
Rindt and Solor-Roig 69-F2-4

Allen

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

A good picture of the car Autosport 13 Aug 1970 p23. Race Report 1970 has a typo over the chassis number of Blades 59B when it appeared early in 1970 but I assume the number 59-F2-21 in F1R can be relied upon. I'll keep a close eye on Blades' libre entries from here on.

I know a second opinion is always useful so, as I'm in here anyway, Race Report gives the 1970 Lotus 69s as:
Fittipaldi 69-F2-1
Ikuzawa 69-F2-2
Potocki 69-F2-3
Rindt and Solor-Roig 69-F2-4

Allen

Did wilson Fittipaldi also drive Chassis 69-F2-1?

I have a feeling this went on to Johnny Blades as I seem to remember it at Thruxton.

[allenbrown]

The 1971 Mallory F2 report said that Wilson F "has bought the ex-Rindt chassis and will run it as a privateer this year". So that would be 69-F2-4.

Blades reemerges at a libre at Croft 30 August 1971, still with his 59/69 but now with a 1900cc Alan Smith FVC.

Allen

[allenbrown]

OK, this is odd. Bobby Howlings sells an "ex-Graham Hill" Lotus 69 to Brian Classick in Sep 1971. Classick races it once at Oulton Park in October.

Anyone know what that would be?

Allen

Ps Just spotted Classick advertising it as ex-Rindt 25 Nov 1971

[Chris Townsend]

This is the current state of my 59-69 research and I've deliberately posted 59 series here to highlight the problem of what's a 59 and what's a 69
Most 59s after chassis 30 seem to become 69s.
Before having a separate thread for 59s I think we need to define where the break is.
There are some anomalies here - notably in Blades' CARS, which LIRA cars went where, and Mawby's cars in 73. But it's a start

Lotus 59/69 series

59-F3-1 Debut Boxing Day 1968, Brands Hatch driven by John Miles. Loaned to Mike Spence team 1969 for Mike Beckwith, then to Lotus Components. 1970 loaned to Tony Trimmer.

59-F3-2 1969 works car for Roy Pike then to the Spence team for Ikuzawa. 1970 Mike Stow for David Cole. 1971 Geddes Yeates [described as ‘ex Cole’].

59-F3-3 1969 works car for Mo Nunn; 1970 works car for Bev Bond and then perhaps Tony Trimmer’s car in the Brazilian series. 1971 works car for Dave Walker. 1972 Alan Edgar and then to Rod Pickering. Perhaps the ‘ex Walker’ car sold to Bill Brack for FB in 1974.

59-F3-4 1969 works car for Roy Pike. 1970 works car for Dave Walker. 1971 perhaps to Alan McCully. If so then Geddes Yeates’ car in 1972 [described as ex McCully, so not his 1971 car.] However see AS 21.10.71 Walker's Brazil car went to McCully and the Bond/Trimmer [Brazil] car was the basis of Walker's 1971 car]

59-F3-5 1969 works car for Mo Nunn, probably retained by works 1970. 1971 perhaps to Transco Racing. 1972 Transco Racing: Barrie Maskell [described as ex Nunn, and chassis given AS report of Silverstone Shell F3 round 23/4/72]

59-F3-6 1969 perhaps Freddy Kottulinsky [inferred on appearance date, if so retained 1970

59-F3-7 1969 Sten Axelsson for Rolf Tellsten; retained by Axelsson in 1970.

59-F3-8 1969 Jim Russell for Emerson Fittipaldi and Dave Walker. 1970 perhaps Tom Walkinshaw; 1971 to Reg James; 1972: Ian Smillie [Scottish H/C 'ex Fittipaldi' AS 6.4.72 p. 41] FS Low Cost Racing AS 8.6.72 -> Fergus Tait [F4 Sept]

59-FB-9 1969 Lotus East for Robert Hébert; perhaps retained 1970/71 and rebuilt to 69B spec.

10 not known
11 not known

59-FB-12 1969 Duchess Auto USA

59-FB-13 1969 USA

59-FB-14 1969 Leo Geohagen, AUS; retained 1970

59-FB-15 1969 USA

16 not known
17 not known
18 not known

59-F2-19 1969 Winkelmann for Jochen Rindt and Alan Rollinson

59-F2-20 1969 Winkelmann for Graham Hill/John Miles/Roy Pike. 1970 fitted with DFV by Pete Lovely.

59-F2-21 1969 Max Moseley; 1970 to Johnnie Blades and run in libre and F2 rounds. Perhaps retained until 1973 and then to Barton, but Blades seems to have a variety of 59s and 69s, and the identities of some become blurred.

59-F3-22 1969 Lars Elgen [chassis number given in MN] 1970 Rolf Tellsten AS 16.10.69 p. 6 says ex Elgen.

59-FB-23 1969 Bill Brack as sales agent which suggests Don Merriman’s car in Canadian championship

59-FB-24 USA

25 not known
26 not known

59-FB-27 USA

28 not known

59-FB-29 USA. By 1974 run as a Jim Russell school car in USA to FF spec.

30 not known

59/69-31-F3 not known before 1971 when chassis number given for Ricky von Opel’s F3 car. Travisco Racing: Ross Ambrose [AS 16.3.72 p.4, ‘ex von Opel’]

59-XF3-FB-32 Unknown in period, for sale in Quebec in early 2000s.

33 not known
34 not known
35 not known
36 not known

59/69-37-F3 1970 Andy Sutcliffe F3; retained 1971 [chassis number given MN 2.9.71 p. 11]; 1972 Jonny Dimsdale, F.Atlantic [chassis number noted 1972 by AF] taken to Macau GP at end of season; damaged in accident and perhaps left there.

59/69-XB/F3-38 1970 to Peter Wardle for FF 1600. 1971 rebuilt by Peter Wardle for Atlantic series, retained 1972. Sold to Gary Ainscough 1973 and used in S.African series

69-39-F3 1970 works F3 team “mule”; 1971 Gerry Birrell/Richard Longman

59-F2/XB-40 1970 Lotus East, perhaps for Robert Hébert, otherwise Fred Stephenson

59-F2/XB-41 1970 to Bill Brack as agent; perhaps for Craig Hill [May 1970] and then to Max Nerrière, 1971

59-F2/XB-42 1970 to JRDS. Perhaps Jacques Couture’s car in 1970 N. American series. 1971 perhaps JRDS team spare and loaned to Eligio Siconolfi in Canadian series.

59-XB/F2-43 1970 Claude Bourgoignie as F.Ford

44 not known

59-XF3/FF-45 1971 Geddes Yeates in S. African “Sunshine” FF series, then to Terry Bengis. 1972 Roy Klomfass

59-XF3/FF-46 1971 Formato in S. African “Sunshine” FF series

69.F2.1 1970 Emerson Fittipaldi for Euro F2 championship with Bardahl sponsorship. 1971 Reine Wisell [AS 8.4.71 p.10] no. given as 2 'ex Bardahl/Fittipaldi] given as 1 15.4.71 p.7
1972 Stephen Choularton [FAt] FS 12.10.72 AS p. 55 British Vita Racing Lotus 69 ex Fittipaldi ex Wisell; "Pau winning car" Maybe sold to Mawby late season.

69-F2-2 1970 Tetsu Ikuzawa for Euro F2 championship. 1971 John Pollock, perhaps retained 1972. 1973: Paddy Farrelly [MN 22.3.73] ex Pollock AS 12.4.73 p.16 For sale in NI 22.9.77 A/S p.62 'virtually unused last 4 years'

69.F2-3 1970 Adam Potocki retained 1971

69-F2-4 1970 Jochen Rindt [F1R]; Alex Soler-Roig; 1972: Brian Classic [ex Rindt used by Willie Green at Croft FL May 14 MN]-> John Coulter; 1973: Johnny Blades [f/s ex Rindt AS 15.3.73 p.59]

69.F2.5 1970 John Miles/Graham Hill/Eugenio Bautrone; 1971 Wilson Fittipaldi [AS 8.4.71 p.10] ex Hill

69.F2.6 1970 not known; 1971 Johnny Blades [AS 8.4.71 p.10 chassis no given] [but at Thruxton has 59.F2.21 described as updated; see also 69-F2-4 perhaps Rindt car for sale by Blades in 1973

69.F2.7 1970 David McConnell [FB] taken to Tasman series, chassis number given by Sargeant website.


71/69.1.F2 Tetsu Ikuzawa [AS 8.4.71 p.10]; Roni Rossi (Temporada F2); Johnny Blades selling ex Ikuzawa 69 AS 15.3.73 p. 59

71/69.2.F2 Irish Racing Cars: Alan Rollinson [AS 8.4.71 p.10]/E. Fittipaldi Torneio series [MN]; 1972 John Pollock; 1973 Johnny Blades selling Fittipaldi's Brazil series Lotus 69 AS 12.4.73 and uses it at Ingliston 15.4.73 [picture AS 19.4.73 p.21]

71/69.3.F2 LIRA: Gerry Birrell/François Migault; Ferrerira [Torneio series MN]

71/69.4.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott; perhaps the McGarrity/O’Leary car then 1977/78 Colin Thorpe and then to Craig Dennis

71/69.5.F2 Emerson Fittipaldi retained 1972 then 1973 Andy Barton; described as 71/69.5.F2 in AS ad 1976; Dave Muter [ex Barton AS 24.3.77 p. 47] f/s AS 5.10.78 p. 68 chassis no given 0670 823248

71/69.14.F2 Emerson Fittipaldi [AS 29.4.71 p.14 completely new at Pau GP] given by F1R, used again in 1972; possibly another incarnation of chassis 5.

71/69.18.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott [AS 8.4.71 p.10] new Hockenheim, given F1R; Patsy McGarrity 1972 ‘ex Scott, LIRA’; Dermot O'Leary [‘ex McGarrity MN 22.3.73] retained 1974, see chassis 4

71-69.1 1971 Chris Oates [FAt] [build record sheet via Bryan Miller] 1972 Bernard Hunter [FAt/FL]; 1973 John Barr [ex Hunter/Oates AS 27.9.73 p. 46] retained 1974 then perhaps Bob Rollo.

71/69.1.FB 1971 “Couture” perhaps Jacques Couture’s 1971 car, given that his name is on build sheet, unlike the other JRDS car.

71/69.2.FB 1971: Bill Monson [FB]

71/69.3.FB 1971 JRDS/Couture Canada. Probably the Russell team’s other car for David McConnell in 1971

71/69.4.FB 1971: J. Silver [USA]

71/69.5.FB 1971 Craig Hill [FB] retained 1972; 1973 Ron Shantz [CAN FB]

71/69.6.FB 1971 Lotus East for Fred Stephenson [FB] [A/S 25.3.71 p. 5 'Stephenson, runner up in the 1969 FB championship and a director of Lotus Racing East will be doing the full 1971 series under the LRE banner with a works supported 69]

71/69.7.FB 1971 Carl Hogan to Tom Coconis; retained by Coconis family until rolled into a ball by Tim Coconis at Watkins Glen SCCA meeting in 1977; rebuilt and sold on race-cars.com in about 2001.

71/69.8.FB 1971: LIRA: Reine Wisell [MN noted chassis no. Interlagos 31.10.71] 1972 Ian Mawby [FAT/R50,000 chassis number given] w/o Brands, November but managed to build another one up for FL Brands 10.12.72. MN 14.12.72 p. 20 Mawby points out that he won in 'the ex Wisell spaceframe' that he completed after his start line shunt the previous weekend' Did he buy the Choularton car in order to do this? 71.69.8.FB would have been a monocoque car. If so that car, rather than the 71/69.8 maybe the car destroyed by Mawby at Snetterton in 1973.

71/69.9.FB 1971: Built for stock; maroon

71/69.10.FB 1971: Built for stock, red

71/69.11.FB 1971: Built for stock, white. F/S by Lotus MN 16.3.72 p.17 69 FB spec, new, white body panels. Perhaps to Geoff Rollason 'the very last Lotus to be made for a private customer, a 69 FB chassis' MN 15.6.72 p.28 and it's white

71/69.12.FB 1971: Built for stock, navy blue. F/S by Lotus MN 16.3.72 p.17 69 FB spec, new, blue body panels. Same ad carries an ex Fittipaldi F2 car and ex Wisell F2/FB spec car, presumably chassis 8

71/69. 1.F3 1971: Francisco Noë

71/69.2.F3
71/69.3.F3
71/69.4.F3

71/69.5.F3 1971 Harald Ertl, retained 1972

71/69.6.F3
71/69.7.F3

71/69.8.F3 1971 Manfred Mohr

71/69.9.F3
71/69.10.F3

71/69.11.F3 Not known before 1973 when observed on the car of Victor Bohm, running in Atlantic at Oulton with a Vegantune t/c engine and F3 wheels.

[allenbrown]

That's rather an impressive list. I had only counted one Blades Lotus 69 so far - you've got five!

Johnny Blades 69s make Tommy Reid's BT30s look like a walk in the park!

Allen

[allenbrown]

Chris

I have one obscure libre contestant that I can't see in your list. Silverstone 30 Sep 1972 (AS 5 Oct 1972 p20) - second place was Bryan Small "having his first race in the ex-Stanton/Birrell Lotus 69 Eden BDA".

Which one would that be?

Allen

[David McKinney]

Any thoughts on Ken Smith's (NZ) 59?
He once told me its c/no was "FL2" which doesn't tie in with anything sensible
He also said he'd bought it from "the president of the BRDC or someone" - I suggested Johnny Blades and he said no...

[Andrew Fellowes]

2002 May 18th, Bonhams, Monaco, Lotus 59 chassis no.25 E19,550

I've just checkd Bonhams web site but it only goes back to 2003 so no details sadly. FB?

[Andrew Fellowes]

69/F3/31 ex Rikki von Opel

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lotuses.htm
(&, 71-69-4-F2, 71/69/17FF, 71/69/9)

Feels like I've crossed over to the dark side posting here,

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

69/F3/31 ex Rikki von Opel

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lotuses.htm
(&, 71-69-4-F2, 71/69/17FF, 71/69/9)

Feels like I've crossed over to the dark side posting here,

John Crook of Paul Matty Lotus runs an F3 Lotus 69 which is supposed to be the ex-von Opel car. I will ask John about the chassis number and any supportive history.

[allenbrown]

Chris

A couple of observations:

59-F2-20 1969 Winkelmann for Graham Hill/John Miles/Roy Pike. 1970 fitted with DFV by Pete Lovely. The Pete Lovely car was reported by Motor Sport and Autocourse to be 69.F2.5.

59-F2-21 1969 Max Moseley; 1970 to Johnnie Blades and run in libre and F2 rounds. Perhaps retained until 1973 and then to Barton, but Blades seems to have a variety of 59s and 69s, and the identities of some become blurred. He appears to use the same Lotus 69-FVA to the end of 1972 and only then starts branching out (with Coulter's 69-BDA and then his ex-Emerson 69-BDE).

69-F2-4 1970 Jochen Rindt [F1R]; Alex Soler-Roig; 1972: Brian Classic [ex Rindt used by Willie Green at Croft FL May 14 MN]-> John Coulter; 1973: Johnny Blades [f/s ex Rindt AS 15.3.73 p.59] Could this be the Wilson Fittipaldi car in 1971? I know it means Autosport 8.4.71 being wrong but Wilson's car was described as ex-Rindt when he bought it. I agree this car goes to Blades because there's a note in AS (19 Oct 1972 p63) that Blades rents Coulter's Lotus 69-BDA for the end-of-year Ingliston libre. It would then be the ex-Rindt car he advertises in March 1973. This car is first mentioned (AS 7 Oct 1971 p25) when Howlings sells it to Classick. Autosport 3 Aug 1972 p35 confirms that it then goes to Coulter.

69.F2.5 1970 John Miles/Graham Hill/Eugenio Bautrone; 1971 Wilson Fittipaldi [AS 8.4.71 p.10] ex Hill I do wonder about this car going to Wilson F as the story I recall from my F1 research was that Lovely acquired 69.F2.5 from the factory.

69.F2.6 1970 not known; 1971 Johnny Blades [AS 8.4.71 p.10 chassis no given] [but at Thruxton has 59.F2.21 described as updated; see also 69-F2-4 perhaps Rindt car for sale by Blades in 1973 Blades advertises his 59B/69 as being built in 1970 so I suppose it's possible Lotus allocated a new chassis number to the car when they updated it. Replacing the whole centre section is bigger than the average upgrade (Booboo) so a new number is distinctly possible.

When Blades advertises two Lotus 69s in March 1973, the ex-Rindt one is said to have a FT200 and is significantly more expensive than the ex-Ikusawa car that has a Mk 8 box. Do those gearboxes give a clue to whether it's an upgraded 59B, a 1970 spec 69 or a 1971 spec 69? I find the "ex-Ikusawa" description utterly perplexing.

The Irish 69s

69-F2-2 1970 Tetsu Ikuzawa for Euro F2 championship. 1971 John Pollock, perhaps retained 1972. 1973: Paddy Farrelly [MN 22.3.73] ex Pollock AS 12.4.73 p.16 For sale in NI 22.9.77 A/S p.62 'virtually unused last 4 years' I can't tell whether Pollock gets a different Lotus 69 for 1972 but it is referred to as "new veteran" in August (AS 3 Aug 1972 p38) implying it's the same car he's had throughout.

71/69.2.F2 Irish Racing Cars: Alan Rollinson [AS 8.4.71 p.10]/E. Fittipaldi Torneio series [MN]; 1972 John Pollock; 1973 Johnny Blades selling Fittipaldi's Brazil series Lotus 69 AS 12.4.73 and uses it at Ingliston 15.4.73 [picture AS 19.4.73 p.21] There are definitely two cars mixed up together here. I have trouble believing Emerson used the ex-IRC Lotus 69 at the Torneio. Surely it's more likely that the IRC car went back to Ireland and Emerson was in 71/69.5.F2. There is a third Lotus 69 in Ireland in 1973 (Walter Kinnear) which makes it more likely that this car stayed in Ireland. What's your reference for the IRC car being with Pollock in 1972?

71/69.4.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott; perhaps the McGarrity/O’Leary car then 1977/78 Colin Thorpe and then to Craig Dennis It really looks like this and 71/69.4.F2 are the same car doesn't it? Lotus getting confused with their own numbering system again?

71/69.18.F2 LIRA: Richard Scott [AS 8.4.71 p.10] new Hockenheim, given F1R; Patsy McGarrity 1972 ‘ex Scott, LIRA’; Dermot O'Leary [‘ex McGarrity MN 22.3.73] retained 1974, see chassis 4

All comments gratefully received.

Allen