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2 Sep 2014, 01:24 (Ref:3449622) | #1 | ||
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Will V8Supercars Still Be Around In 5 Years? (Merged)
Article Here
It is curious why there are many articles around knocking the V 8SC series, and very few detailing the huge jourmey the category has come on. |
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 02:13 (Ref:3449626) | #2 | |||
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It's the Australian way. Instead of celebrating ones success, we cross our fingers and wish for their downfall. Tall poppy and all that. |
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
2 Sep 2014, 02:54 (Ref:3449631) | #3 | ||
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If you hunt around in here I suggested (with a picture) that the V8's would be gone by 2018, not much longer to wait, and it is looking increasingly like the V8 engine will go the way of the dodo
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
2 Sep 2014, 02:56 (Ref:3449632) | #4 | ||
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
2 Sep 2014, 03:10 (Ref:3449633) | #5 | |
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The category can survive if they move away from technical parity.
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2 Sep 2014, 04:25 (Ref:3449635) | #6 | ||
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Its impossible to think that there will be no premier category of motorsport in this country. There always is just as there always was. It will evolve for sure. With existing players. With new players. With all kinds of things the same. And different.
But its not dead, not by a long stretch. The comparison to DTM is laughable. 3 factories spending upwards of what $100m each in whatever currency you choose to play in, competing against each other... For that kind of budget, the whole V8SC field could operate a new car at every round and still have money left over for palm trees. |
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 05:05 (Ref:3449637) | #7 | |||
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People got all excited today because Erebus changed the font on one of the cars, folk were speculating on who's sponsoring the defacto works Volvo team next year seeing how their sponsor's due to go missing, and they couldn't get anyone to make anything more than a $4 eBay bid on three of the once-coveted REC's… and between their greed, and that of some of the folk who have been trying to get somebody to buy them out of the sport, they've waved off virtually any prospective newcomers who were set to bring anything of worth to the category. If they want competitors, they need to make the sport MORE accessible. The times of haven people banging down the door to play are GORN. There's no real perceived value in the category - nobody gets any benefit from having them over for a skid around the yard, except the participant teams and associated camp followers. |
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A Smith & Wesson beats four aces |
2 Sep 2014, 06:05 (Ref:3449642) | #8 | |
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The championship will continue as it always has since 1960.
Whether the V8-only formula continues only time will tell. Who thought in 1993 that the V8 only formula would still be going now? Any move in the direction i think your suggesting (individual team/driver parity) would only hasten the demise of the series, not extend any life of it. |
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2 Sep 2014, 06:20 (Ref:3449645) | #9 | |||
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 06:38 (Ref:3449648) | #10 | |
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Should we re-adopt a 'Level 2' REC, at a reduced value, for those willing to undertake a part time campaign, at a reduced price? Perhaps a minimum and maximum level of participation?
Say, there was a pool of maybe 6 Level 2 RECs, it may get the field back the "ideal" grid of 28 cars at most events. Perhaps more at the big races? Could be a better way of some DVS teams finding that middle ground between a DVS campaign and a full-on V8SC tilt. |
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2 Sep 2014, 07:12 (Ref:3449649) | #11 | |
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Most likely, it would seem Mr. Warburton has been employed to ensure the alienation of fans and destruction of a popular formula.
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2 Sep 2014, 07:13 (Ref:3449650) | #12 | |||
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 07:37 (Ref:3449651) | #13 | ||
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V8Supercars need to get away from being so "exclusive" and start being more "inclusive" to people wanting to enter These RECs have made the whole show a closed shop for years, it worked ten years ago, but they are still using the same business plan in a completely different world it seems like.... Is there any actual plan on how to attract more REC buyers, or are they just hoping (assuming) it will turn around thanks to a wizz-bang TV deal that more than half of Australia can't watch? |
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2 Sep 2014, 08:06 (Ref:3449656) | #14 | ||
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 08:07 (Ref:3449657) | #15 | |||
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I've said for years that the "exclusive" V8SC philosophy was counter-productive and short-sighted. They perverted the original purposes of the REC system, and instead of using it to guarantee a minimum number of starters, they've used it to drive up their stocks (temporarily). That they couldn't get anybody to beat a $4 eBay bid on their spare REC's should have really set alarm bells ringing - their glass castle's not worth what they reckon it is, the Emperor's starkers and in danger of frostbite, and nobody's saying nuthin'. The silhouette formula's not a bad idea, but it's too expensive. I'd reckon go back to a production-based formula: whatever model you have, whatever motor it's got. Make it production saloons, minimum global annual production figure so that they've gotta go for the Cruze or Fusion rather than trying to argue their way into something ridiculous like a McLaren. Use the Jack Hinxman Bathurst yardstick - get a 6'4" retired copper, and if he can't sit in the back of it, it's out.… and then make it about power to weight. Control ECU, rev limit, and then put 'em on the portable dyno after qualifying and then the top 5 post-race… sell tickets to it. You can spend billions on your engine development and get 40 million hp, and we'll recognise your excellence with a nice lead trophy. You've then not only got an avenue to INCLUDE just about anything on the market, but you have the option of breaking it into classes by engine capacity if you want to, for the spectacle. Run a couple of different series. Have a national touring car championship. Have secondary series - run it at alternate tracks, like Wakefield, or Morgan Park, Mallala, whatever. Set the ATCC up like the WTCC model - pay the lot in order to pay for points, but show up for all the rounds. That'll get the Big Teams in, for the prestige of the Ancient Title, then let the others pay for a start in the individual rounds, but aren't eligible for points. But at least the hometown heroes can play. What's that you say? Letting a couple of weekend warriors out with the stars? An accident waiting to happen? The "stars" might learn to do a race without bouncing off everything in sight, if they've got to apply a bit of discretion and tact. I reckon we might get a relevant and accessible touring car formula going… it might even be cheaper! It might offer some variety! |
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A Smith & Wesson beats four aces |
2 Sep 2014, 08:53 (Ref:3449663) | #16 | ||
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Perhaps couple that with some sort of 'allowance' that might let potential entrants be allowed to put together a program for a season where they were only compelled to run at say Adelaide, Townsville, Sandown, Bathurst, Gold Coast and Sydney? Make it look like they actually want people to enter, rather than just telling people to 'tender' for a spot on our grid under our terms and bring your sack of $$ with you. |
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2 Sep 2014, 09:07 (Ref:3449665) | #17 | |
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Nah, not suggesting DVS teams use the previous Blueprint chassis. There's probably 4 or 5 COTF chassis sitting in workshops, not in active duty (ride cars included).
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2 Sep 2014, 09:07 (Ref:3449666) | #18 | ||
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The point you are likely missing is that V8SC doesnt set the price of the REC, the existing REC holders do.
If they have an asset in their books at $1.5 million, however it got there, there is little chance they will be thrilled with selling that asset for much less than that. Its historical. And hysterical. Kinda. I still come back to it.. there is opportunity at a number of rounds of the series to bring on a wild card entry with the love and blessing of V8SC, yet nobody does it. Nobody. Where is the queue... teams like Sonic dont seem to be looking to step up, or Matt White or Eggleston... or other squads that have been around for a while. Arguably the only one to have done it in recent times was PCR... Is the desire gone? Is it more lucrative to run as customers than to lead the way and run your own show? Perhaps. Perhaps not. As excited as some seem to get about GT3, and how that class is 'better' that V8SC... if there were no patrons in that space, owning cars, paying to run them, almost all on a non-commercial basis... the GT series wouldnt be here either! |
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 09:24 (Ref:3449670) | #19 | |
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I think most of us are on the same page here, with regards to the concept of some sort of Level 2 REC. I also think that most will agree that 25 cars, (even less at SMP after a few shunts, at a track that 10-15 years ago attracted close to 50 entries at one point), is not enough of a spectacle. Does offering a Level 2 REC dilute any other aspect of the catagory, besides the accessability to join?
V8SC already offers 'Wild Card' opportunities at their 'showcase' events, but besides the occasional Bathurst campaign, this hasn't been utilised as it's intended to. I wonder what, if anything, is stopping someone entering an extra car, besides having to come up with the staff, money and parts cache? Perhaps the entry has to be media-friendly? |
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2 Sep 2014, 09:34 (Ref:3449672) | #20 | ||
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The challenge of a wildcard entry, besides sourcing a car & the bits required to keep it on the road, is the sheer volume of dollars required to secure an eligible vehicle. They are still quite scarce, especially compared to the Project Blueprint days.
Of interest most recently is that there is noise around suggesting that the Dunlop Series teams may be able to run the new CotF as soon as 2015... its apparently an idea kicking around V8SA HQ, with prompting from the Dunlop series alumni most likely, to try and get chassis that they might just be able to run in a wildcard position. Where this is interesting is that it may unlock a number of teams' equipment into the Dunlop series, allowing the repower with brand new gear, and potentially to take the time to reevaluate brand choice as well. The answer, to me anyway, isnt to build another class of cars. They do that in other markets, and the thinly spread moneytree in that space inevitably eventually breaks, and you end up with a load of people with fresh cars they cant actually race anywhere. |
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Go woke, Go broke… Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! #CANCERSUCKS |
2 Sep 2014, 16:12 (Ref:3449754) | #21 | |||
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Gp C was killed off (Boo) and Gp A too (Yay) I wonder about the medium term & beyond. The fields are getting smaller, the 2015 TV betrayal has alienated many, and the cars are too far removed from their production base. Last edited by Marcos WTF; 2 Sep 2014 at 16:19. Reason: Rant wasn't long enough. |
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You in the Camry. The world won't end if you press a bit harder on the accelerator. (its the tall skinny pedal on the right) And FFS use the indicators! |
2 Sep 2014, 21:42 (Ref:3449823) | #22 | |||
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GT3's still pretty expensive, but given that they're not exactly running around in Kias or Cruzes purchased during the EOFYS's, it's not surprising… The beauty of what came before COTF, before the V8SC regime, was that aspiring participants could build themselves a compliant vehicle out of something off the used car lot. Sure, most of the big teams were using bodies-in-white that were fettled specially, with deleted deadener and bracketing, and extra stitching, but cars like the first Johnson XD, and most of the Group A Skylines, and Lord knows however many others, were built from second-hand road cars. KB's Camaro was bought through a car dealer (with dealer-fitted optional rear discs hehehe). The exclusivity that V8SC's craved and cultivated was all well and good for their stocks while people had the desire and the backing to get involved, but there are more than a couple of the current participants who struggle to scrape together the backing to STAY involved, let alone anybody new trying to get in. And the category has had a history of doing its best to discourage newbies from coming in anyway - remember how welcome Thexton was made? It's too cliquey, too pricey, too hubcap-like (shiny-ish on top, **** underneath etc). |
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A Smith & Wesson beats four aces |
3 Sep 2014, 00:48 (Ref:3449861) | #23 | |||
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I always imagined you were a little older |
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.......just waiting for ANTON DePASQUALE to chalk up his first V8SC Championship! |
3 Sep 2014, 00:57 (Ref:3449864) | #24 | ||
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It all sounds so easy, but as we have seen from the teams coming in with new manufacturers, it is far from easy. Overall I actually think COTF has been a success. I only came back to V8SC because of it. I had lost interest with watching 2 cars race, I could barely even tell them apart after project blueprint and they looked so similar. Now I can easily tell the cars apart. I can even hear a difference between the engines! I think that is fantastic. The racing is close too, and I really don't have an issue with 25 cars on the grid. I would like to see a few more wild cards, and see a few back yard privateers racing at the events, but this really doesn't make or break it for me. I'm surprised to see so many people predicting the demise of the category. If I didn't visit ten-tenths I would think it is currently very strong, just from what I see on TV. |
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3 Sep 2014, 01:51 (Ref:3449868) | #25 | ||||||||
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I agree that it's been better this season than for many in the recent past. But given the scenario where people can't find anybody to buy them out of the category when they've had enough, it points to the possibility that not only will there be teams leaving, but eventually leaving broke. Not a good thing. |
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A Smith & Wesson beats four aces |
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