The CART-IRL Split

[KC]

We all have our favorites in this long running battle. There are a lot of misconceptions back and forth about this whole deal as well. When you see teams switching allegiances or folding outright it hurts both sides of the equation. I am not looking at this as a fan of one series, but as a fan of open wheel racing in general.

CART has hurt themsleves in the past so much through their own incompetence. That incompetence has not come from the managers, it has come from the owners of the teams that hold franchises and in essence have the final decision on all matters. The onus lies squarely on their shoulders. TV ratings have been destroyed, the program has been damaged through mismanagement, detrimental TV contractual agreements and poor marketting. The alienation of long time supporters Ford and Honda in favor of Toyota may have caused irreparable damage in the collaboration between the suppliers and the teams. Manufacturers are necessary. No racing series can live without the companies that build the equipment. The lack of cohesive leadership among the owners and their own myopia concerning the very series they purport to love is forcing the manufacturers to make hard decisions.

The IRL has not been the overall success predicted by many as well. Facing incredibly powerful competition from NASCAR for oval racing viewers has been an uphill battle from the beginnning and they have made very little headway on this. Their TV ratings have been abyssmal at best and crowd attendance at most events has been poor as well. Tony George is forced to subsidize half the teams out of his own pocket and the series is struggling to find a title sponsor. The pervading perception that the IRL racers are somehow inferior to CART racers are enforced when CART drivers defeat IRL regulars at their premier event. The mass media insists that the IRL is cheaper to run than CART and for some that is probably so. However, running in a series and contending for the title are two separate things. I would wager that Panther Racing and Kelley Racing have budgets on par with Target Chip Ganassi and Marlboro Penske. These teams establish the bar of performance for their series.

So what we have is a decisive and self destructive battle between two series with entirely different formulas and differing goals. What I see are two series that are strong enough to stand beside each other and seem hell bent on destruction by competing with one another instead. Both series offer a chance for racers to race, fans to watch and sponsors to display their products in a positive manner. Instead we get the constant sniping between series and fans instigated by the agenda driven press who perpetrate this battle when both sides have tried to get on with their programs. I for one, am sick and tired of the "who is better" argument, when neither one seems able to do a halfway decent job of it. What they have succeeded in doing is drag what used to be one of the best forms of open wheel racing into the toilet. All in the name of ego and power.

I am rapidly becoming less and less of a fan of Indy Car/CART racing because I am tired of the ever present ****.

[marcus]

KC ...brilliantly said.

I have had three goes at writing this reply....I still dont know what to say but I love all racing no matter what it is.

my mother always taught me to be polite so if you have nothing nice to say , dont say anything.

im gonna shut up now before I say something that will get me into trouble

racings racing folks

[Liz]

Ditto, Marcus. The only things I could add would be the prescription of doing something about TG, but Mama told me not to pick on the afflicted.

I'm spending more time on sports cars this year in hopes that sooner or later these Kilkenny Cats will settle their differences and let the rest of us go racing.

But no ovals.

[Emfa]

Sounds like what you are saying, KC, is that "Nobody wins." I tend to agree.

I have my favourites, but more and more I'm starting to feel, like you, that all this bickering is getting terribly tiresome, and I'm losing interest.

[Dr. Austin]

You will notice that it isn't the IRL fans who are doing the bickering. IRL fans are happy to have a racing series that features wheel to wheel, 220mph+ action. IRL fans are happy that there is a series that guarantees a good starting field for the 500 and 14 other ***kicking races to boot. IRL fans are happy that more and more Americans are at last getting a fair shot at driving in the 500. IRL fans are just plain happy.

Is is always the CART fans who spew their bitter venom with such words as hack, loser, has been, bla, bla, bla. CART fans are so insecure in their series future that they feel it necessary dis the IRL, it's drivers and fans at every turn in the road. But they can't seem to figure out that won't save CART. The more pablum and hate that they spew, the more snobbish and elitist they make themselves and their series look, thus turning off the casual viewer who could otherwise be a loyal fan. IRL fans are happy to watch CART races and enjoy them as well, but it seems CART fans can have none of that and anyone who watches an IRL race is labelled a "loser," or "stupid." In most CART fan's world, there is no room for anything but the series they like and those who disagree are beneath contempt.

Witness the personal attacks we have see here on Tony George and his family. Notice some here have wished personal harm to them. You never see IRL fans carrying on with such childish antics because they harbor no bitterness over the split. IRL fans just love good racing and could care less about the politics. Most IRL web boards are full of racing talk, while predominately CART boards are full of spiteful hate and insults. Who would you guess to be the real race fans?

I was sick of this along time ago and have tried to stay out of it. But some CART fans are so paranoid that they won't let anyone stay nuetral and those who don't choose CART as their favorite are targets for personal insults. So I choose the IRL, strictly because it's fans are so much more friendly and only care about the racing. Is CART good racing? Hell, I don't know anymore and I stopped caring because I got sick of being called a lemming everytime I merely noticed that an IRL race was entertaining.

I was die hard CART all the way until just this last year. Then I noticed which fans were having a good time, and which fans were merely trying to ruin the other's fun. CART fans themselves are doing just as much to destroy the series as it's inept leadership. Go ahead and call another IRL fan a lemming and see if he ever shows up at a CART race. Who wants to hang out with people who treat them like that?

[macdaddy]

Let me throw a few more kudos to KC for his original post. Well spoken. As far as the IRL is concerned, I was as upset about the split as anybody else, but I watched the first several IRL events of 96 and gave it a fair chance. But I didn't like what I saw. So I haven't watched them since, with the exceptions being the 2000 and 2001 Indy's, when there were CART entries. But I'm going to give them another chance. (They can thank Marlboro for that). In fact, I'm seriously considering going to watch them run Michigan. (They can thank CART for that). I hope I like what I see. The series isn't likely to ever become my "favourite" however, simply because of the all-oval format. And also because CART is my one true love. All that I can say is that I am looking forward to the green flag at Monterrey. There's nothing like the thrill of open wheel. I'll be standing in my living room, beer in hand, yelling at the television like a child for two hours. And I will be happy. And all this bickering will be a faded memory, at least for a little while.

[Crash Test]

I don't know... maybe my problem is that I'm too much of a motorsport fan to care...

This afternoon I've watched go-karts, sidecars, and the World of Outlaws on the TV, and I've enjoyed every second of it.

If I had a grudge against every form of motorsport that annoyed me in the past I would probably only be left with lawnmower racing...

I love CART- I always have and I forever will do. Every year I can't wait to go down the Gold Coast...it's a fantastic weekend.

Saying that, I watch the IRL simply to enjoy the racing- it doesn't matter if the drivers are Eddie Cheever, Bumbly Joe or Jack Miller- they turn on some fantastic racing. I think some people might be surprised if they watched the IRL of how good the racing it... I don't really want to judge anybody here, but if you go into with an attitude that won't change, or people who have never watched it/haven't watched it since 1996, then there isn't much point coming in here and knocking the class.

[Airhead]

Say Doc,

I agree with KC - really good summation - especially for those of us in the bleachers...

Now, just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get ya..

Physician heal thyself... Increase the Largactil dose Austin.

[Mr V]

bit of a bummer having to listen to Jason Preistley commentating tho isn't it???

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AMoffat


"Now, just because you are paranoid, "

Thanks for driving home my point. Don't agree with an IRL fan? Just insult him. Don't talk about the racing, make it personal.

[badoer fan]

Grrrr, this was starting to turn into an interesting debate!

Personally, I like both. I also like F1. They rarely clash, so why can't I watch both, and like them both? I just want to see good, exciting motor racing, and both of them provide this more than adequately.

[craigmanning]

KC.....were you joking, exaggerating or being serious? Tony George subsidized half of the field?

[Jay]

Well...I'm not a fan of the IRL and some other types of open-wheel racing... In fact, I guess I don't like oval racing in general. I mean, there have been some exciting 500 mile races at Michigan and Fontana...but apart from those... they usually put me to sleep.

So..from my POV(not most peoples)...I could care less whether they reunite or not... or that the name 'Marlboro' ever appears on the side of another race car again. That's not completely crazy with tobacco laws toughening up everywhere...

[KC]

Neither side of this argument, as far as fans are concerned, can say they have not bithced about the other side. We have all done it at one time or another. The biggest problem I have with the argument is neither side is right or going to be the savior of open wheel racing. The IRL cannot keep a series sponsor for more than two years. Neither program is drawing TV interest at all.

So what has been gained? NASCAR has gained.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC


"The biggest problem I have with the argument is neither side is right or going to be the savior of open wheel racing."

No, but one thing is for absolute sure; Tony George has saved INDYCAR
racing already. He laid out his plan from the very first day and has not waivered even one inch from the original vision. That is because he is sure of what he is doing and were he is taking his league.

Does anyone care to say CART is sure about anything? Do we know what engine they are going to run in 2003? How about chassis? Which of the revolting US tracks will be left on their 2003 schedule? Which CART teams won't bail to go IRL racing? Does anyone have any of these answers for sure?

Indycar racing was already saved the moment Tony George decided to take matters into his own hands. CART has been so badly (and maybe corruptly) mismanaged that the split was the only guarantee the Speedway had of saving itself from sharing in CART's self inflicted malaise. It was not so obvious at first, but the more that CART distanced themselves from the speedway, the more obvious it became that they are dead without it. Why do you think it is so important for them to come back?

Roger Penske is smart enough to see what is ahead. He is always one, maybe two steps ahead of the rest. He has kissed CART off completely. When CART could no longer deal in good faith with MIS, this scenerio was etched in stone. First, Roger sells his stock. Then he pulls out his tracks. And now his team. Think what that says about CART when it comes from it's founder and longest standing supporter.

And what do you think Roger's CART engine supplier has to say about it?




"The IRL cannot keep a series sponsor for more than two years."

Pep boys didn't honor their contract and they had to settle out of court. It is hardly Tony's fault that Northern Lights was mismanaged as badly as CART and is belly up.

There are plenty of rumors about the Fed-Ex representives having lunch in that little cafe in North Indianapolis. You know, that's the one that Tony George likes so much. The one that Roger Penske spent so much time in this year. Tony is famous for doing business over lunch. Stay tuned. I'll be having lunch there next week. I'll let you know what I overhear.




"So what has been gained?"

What has been gained is that the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is safe from CART's inept (and maybe corrupt) influence. CART can just implode in their own self inflicted cesspool of incompetence and greed, but the 500 is forever, baby!

What has been gained is that Indycar's winningest team has come home.
And you had better believe than more are sure to follow. What has been gained is that the running of the American national driving championship is once again where it belongs, in the hands of Indianapolis Motor Speedway. And the future of the championship is guaranteed by it's president. It is guaranteed by the man who has delivered on every promise he has ever made.

Who do you trust? The people who brought you tongue-talking Joe? Do you trust Grosfeld and Vananni, men who make their living by buying stock and making such a pain of themselves that shareholders will pay any price to get rid of them? Do you trust the people who Honda says can't run a professional series with any degree of integrity? Do you trust the circus clowns?

Or do you trust the man who was raised from childhood to be the guardian of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, it's sanctity and traditions? A man who is already so rich and powerful that all that is left is for him to secure his place in history as racing's 21st century visionary. It's only destiny, so get out of his way.

What has been gained is that CART is going to be allowed to sink themselves without pulling everyone else down with them. Everything that CART has going against them, they have caused by themselves with no help from the speedway.

There are those who feel the split is responsible for CART's current woes. If that is so, why isn't CART strong enough to stand on it's own? If they are no better than that, why does anyone think they should be allowed to tell the Indianapolis Motor speedway what to do?

[Liz]

And if Champ Cars were to fail, which they are not going to do, then sports cars will gain.

I tried watching an oval race at Fontana in 1999. I don't like them because the cars go by so fast I can't tell who is who; unless you're sitting next to that tower thing you can't tell who's in what position; there's no variety in the racing; and only the last 30 laps are relevant to the outcome. (In fact, oval racing is a lot like baseball. Which is also boring to me.)

So I have decided that an entire racing season made up of that would not be to my taste. And, like baseball, I would not miss it if it went away forever.

KC is right, so far no one has gained the upper hand. But eventually someone will. With the help of us dedicated Champ Car people who are NOT addicted to D&G, it will be Champ Cars. I'm doing my bit.

[KC]

So Tony George has SAVED Indy car racing? From who? Why? How? So he can personally subsidize half the teams? So he can make the rules at his own track? When did CART ever dictate anything to Tony George about the Speedway? What has TG done that is so great? They have the same problems CART does. NO ONE is watching. CART got away from their own edict of engine and rules stability. The IRL teams do not make enough money and cannot gather enough sponsors to operate themsleves and must rely on TG to subsidize them. Agan I ask, what has changed except for the names of the people in charge? Tony George has no altruistic goal of saving Indy Car. He wanted control and had to start his own series to get it. He used to rule USAC and had defacto control before CART was formed and through his own mismanagement and ineptitude he lost it and CART was born. The only difference between CART and the IRL right now is the racing format and the engines.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Liz

"And if Champ Cars were to fail, which they are not going to do, then sports cars will gain."

Fine with me. At least the ALMS is run by a visionary with the sport's interest at heart. Kind of like the IRL. And very unlike the other guys.


"I tried watching an oval race at Fontana in 1999. I don't like them "

Then you will be happy when the IRL puts on such a great show there that the chumpcars won't be invited back.

So, what if CART becomes an all road course series? Do you think with no connection to the 500 they will survive any longer than F-5000? The only reason you don't see chumpcars in a museam next to a Brontosauras is because they have been allowed to play off the "Indycar" image for so long. But that is over now. Next year Tony has exclusive rights to use the name "Indycar." Don't bet against him using it and slamming home the final nail.



"there's no variety in the racing;"

Not much variety in NASCAR, but it seems to be doing ok. And who cares about variety when there is plenty of 220+mph wheel to wheel, balls to the walls action?

You want variery? Go ahead and watch them scorch the Long Beach streets at 105mph. Whooopeee!



"KC is right, so far no one has gained the upper hand."

The IRL has the engine makers. The IRL has the chassis makers, with Reynard and Lola coming. The IRL has the exclusive national network TV contract. The IRL has CART's winningest team and founder. And chapion. The IRL has CART's former marquee event. You know, the REAL 500.

The IRL has the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. And the Indianapolis 500. The IRL has the biggest secret weapon of all; Tony George.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC

"So Tony George has SAVED Indy car racing? From who? Why? How?"

He has saved indycar racing from the inept and maybe corrupt influence of the self-serving CART owners. Not to mention the greedy board of directors and stockholders. And then there is Grosfeld and Vananni. Which one of those fellows is Darth?


"So he can personally subsidize half the teams?"

Prove it. Prove in black and white that he is subsidizing half the field or give it up. Post a link. Prove it or stop saying it.



"So he can make the rules at his own track?"

DOH! It IS his track. He was raised from birth to run the speedway, so who are you to tell him he can't make his own rules there? He is taking over because he could see the road to ruin that the blind CART leadership was so merrily bopping down.

The CART owners were merely blinded by their own greed. Wittness CART going public. The franchise holders get filthy rich, but control of the sport is now in the hands of the bean counters. Thank god they were not able to sell out the Speedway and the 500. That's right. CART sold out the future of the sport for a few bucks. Real sportsmen.



"The IRL teams do not make enough money and cannot gather enough sponsors to operate themsleves and must rely on TG to subsidize them."

Prove it. But then, so what? If Tony makes enough money to pay for everyone's racing, he must be the best man to run things. Any F-1 team that runs out of money disappears like Lotus did. And when a loyal CART partisan like Dale Coyne has difficulty, it's just too bad, isn't it? If Tony is supporting the people who are loyal to him, good for him, dammit.
]



"He wanted control and had to start his own series to get it. He used to rule USAC and had defacto control before CART was formed and through his own mismanagement and ineptitude he lost it and CART was born."

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttt! Wrong! Tony George did not lose control of anything. He wasn't even in charge of the speedway until the early nineties, long after CART was formed. Perhaps you are thinking of Tony Hulman, but he had to die before the owners had enough guts to rebel. Even then, they didn't do anything until the entire USAC technical committe was killed in a light aircraft crash. With the speedway leaderless and USAC gutted, the owners swooped in like rabid vultures and siezed control, starting the swirling downward spiral Indycar racing now finds itself in. Sure, CART prospered for awhile, but look at them now. Without George's leadership, the speedway would be in the same sorry state.

If you are going to have such strong opinions, have the facts right first. Tony George was not in control of the speedway in 1978. Or 1979. Or 1980.




"The only difference between CART and the IRL right now is the racing format and the engines."

Sure. But other differences include the IRL having a vision and direction and a strong leader who will never compromise his or the sport's integrity for a buck. And Tony george will be judged by how well he secures and protects the future of the Indianapolis Motor speedway, while CART will be judged by it's bean counters. Corporate bottom line, baby!

[KC]

I apologize about TG and the timeline when CART was born. I stand corrected. I have respect for him and what he has done to better the speedway. However, I do not agree with his ambitions for American open wheel racing.

Tom Kelley made the comments in a interview in RACER magazine that his was the only team in the IRL to make money last year. He commented that better than half of the teams needed a cash adavance from Tony George to operate from race to race and that he did not expect them to be able to repay it. This was driven home more than once during the Indy 500 broadcast when the CART teams dominated the top 10 that many of the IRL teams were looking for the enlarged purse from the race to help make ends meet and the CART teams took the lion's share. Brock Yates, ardent IRL supporter, has made the same comments in his editorials.

Far too many of these teams do not have enough sponsorship and resources to adequately campaign an entire season. Its a damn shame to me. But it is part and parcel of the problem. What has happened is that CART and the IRL have split up the traditional sponsors (except for Valvoline who quit for WC) and have essentially harmed each other in the process. All the while sponsors like McDonald's would rather place their name on a stock car that cannot make the grid at a WC race than be on the side of any open wheel car.

My desperate fear is that the two of them will eventually kill each other off or when one dies the other will follow because the sponsors will be sick and tired of it all. Then we have all lost what we want.

There is room for both to run their respective series.

[Raoul Duke]

I'll go with Crash Test on this one in saying that I'm really to much of a racing fan to actually get involved with this whole issue. In moments of sheer frustration I have made some degrading comments about the IRL. But I do realise that they are a good series in their own right. That said, however, I do not watch it on a regular basis and will always choose Cart over the IRL.

[Liz]

Dr. Austin, the commentary you have added to my comments does not convince me to watch oval racing, any more than my mother's recital of all the reasons liver was good for me convinced me to eat liver.

The fact of the matter is, I don't like oval racing (or baseball) for the reasons that I have stated, and all the reasons you like it are all the reasons I do not. And frankly, I don't care if all 300,000,000 Americans watch nothing but oval racing, I DON'T LIKE OVAL RACING AND I AM NOT GOING TO WATCH IT.

Thank you.

===========================

Road and street racing seems to do very well in every country but the United States (name me one Formula One race that is run on an oval of any kind; or one WRC that runs on a superspeedway), and for those whose world does not end at the borders of the United States, there will always be plenty of good road racing to watch.

However, please feel free to watch ovals within the borders of the United States -- in fact, please feel free to watch only oval racing in Nazareth, Pennsylvania, if that is what you like.

But if you want to convince a dedicated road and street race fan that what Tony George has done to racing is a good thing, and that the world would be a better place if all racing save his style of racing controlled by him were destroyed ... you are wasting your breath.

See you at Sebring. Which is not an oval.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Liz


"I DON'T LIKE OVAL RACING AND I AM NOT GOING TO WATCH IT."

Great. Then you won't have enough knowledge to comment on it anymore.
If you don't watch it, it will be impossible for you to have an informed opinion on it.





"and for those whose world does not end at the borders of the United States, there will always be plenty of good road racing to watch."

What kind of lame commentary is THAT? There is plenty of good road racing within the borders of the United States. You don't really think the ALMS is named after Africa do you? Ever hear of a little Florida town called Sebring?

The only reason I will ever have to leave the united states is to scuba in cayman. And there is always that little June deal in france.
I've got a 24 hour race in Feb and a 12 hour ALMS race in March. I've got the greatest race the world has ever/ever will see in May (and pit passes and lunch with TG). And i have plenty of internet friends and family in Indy to visit while i'm there. And i hope to meet the Beer Baron at that topless join on 16th street. Him and Gruner. Only this time i won't get arrested. Well, it will probably be all three of us in a cell, but what are friends for?


And 15 other ***kicking IRL races.

And of course, the Gulf of Mexico is the best kept secret in the dive industry. Just two hours away from me, 30 minutes by helicopter. 45 minutes if they drop me directly in the water next to the boat. I can bicycle to the 12 hours of Sebring from my house. Well, i could if I wasn't so old and fat.


The world doesn't end with the US borders, there is just nothing more interesting to me anywhere else. Except the water is really nice in Cayman. And that race in France is pretty special. I plan to go to both this year. Oh, maybe bonaire would be nice. and the bahamas! And Cancun is full of pretty girls. And nice, clear, warm water.



"But if you want to convince a dedicated road and street race fan that what Tony George has done to racing is a good thing,?"

Whatever happened to being a dedicated "race fan?"

You can't convince people who have already made their minds up and refuse to listen to reason. Otherwise, you would see that what tony george has done IS good for racing. He has saved the Indianapolis Motor Speedway from going down the tube with the greedy and incompetent leaders of CART and their corporate bottom line. Tony George has done a magnificent job of protecting the interests of the IMS, the only job he is entrusted with.

If CART is so great and so special, they really need to establish their own identity and stop living in the shadow of the Indianapolis 500. Or riding on it's coattails.





"and that the world would be a better place if all racing save his style of racing controlled by him were destroyed ..."

I never said that, and you know I love sportscars and F-1. What i surely don't want to see destroyed is the indianapolis 500, and CART no longer has the chance to do that. I love CART racing, but the owners have mucked it up so bad that i have to cheer their demise. In a few years we will see IRL road racing. With Tony's leadership, Bernie had better watch it.


It is good that the IRL is in such good shape. If CART isn't strong enough to stand on it's own, tough. They certainly made enough noise about how they had the real cars and the real stars, the real 500 (now an IRL event). They sure made enough noise about "who needs milk?" And they sure made enough noise about how they didn't need the speedway and how the speedway was finished without CART. So now all the CART fans have exactly what they want. Now CART has the chance to prove how much better than the speedway they are. hahahahah. They are regretting their snobbery now, aren't they? CART isn't doing so well now that they have to put up when they should have stayed shut up.



If CART is having troubles, they have brought every last little bit of it on themselves. Trying to pin any of their woes on tony George is just tooooooo lame. Tony didn't **** off CART's engine makers. He didn't collude with toyota. He didn't make CART run out of integrity, either (that was tongue-talking Joe's department). Tony didn't overcharge the circuits for putting on a race. Tony didn't sell out the future of his sport for a buck like CART did. Tony didn't sneak out of town with a promoter's money and make them sue him to get it back. Tony got rid of his circus clowns, but was CART smart enough to do the same(well, they did bounce Uncle Joe)? No, they are bringing Bozo back for another season of comedy cock-ups. But it won't be funny if someone else gets hurt. You can't mismanage the running of races as badly as CART did this year and expect no one to get hurt because of it. There were damn lucky no one died at RA.


Tony didn't make everyone afraid to be the next to be screwed by CART.


CART did all of those things to themselves. But if you want to insist that Tony George ("the man who ruined Indycar racing') is behind CART's problems, then he is so powerful and influential that there is no doubt he is the man best suited to run all OW racing. If Tony has caused all of CART's problems, then he has sure outsmarted them, hasn't he?





"you are wasting your breath."

Don't worry. I can get 1 hour 30 minutes on an 80 c.f. aluminum tank and still get back to the boat with 1000 psi. Unless, of course, i'm serving as the dive guide for the wenesday nude nurse's diving club (I am the token male). That is a little more stressful. But a good kind of stress.





"See you at Sebring. Which is not an oval."

Not so fast, Liz. you still promised me a beer at Daytona. It will be my turn to buy at Sebring.

[KC]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Its just a bunch of self serving rhetoric bull****! For every "Who needs milk?" or "We have all the stars" comment that has been made there have just as many "they are just F1 rejects" and "they think they are better than us" remarks the other way. The bad part is that it is the fans saying all this garbage and not the two racing series. There was some backlash on both sides when the split occurred, but it passed quickly. They have respect for one another, something many fans cannot seem to be able to grasp.

Its not a matter of who is better and therefore who is right, its matter of racing. Right now, neither series can stand up and say they do it right, both of them currently suck where the ratings count and they count a hell of lot more than what opinion any of us have. If the sponsors do not come, then it is all for naught. Right now, no sponsors seem willing to join in.

[Jay]

The world doesn't end with the US borders, there is just nothing more interesting to me anywhere else.

ahh....the American spirit that the world loves...hehehe Glad not all Americans are like this...

So....if the Indy 500 is the greatest race in the world why do more people watch any given Formula One race....hehe

ok...enough...Dr.Austin, we get the idea, you are a very big IRL fan in the same way that I am Cart fan... You are always going to like ovals and loath street courses...I am always going to love street and road racing, and watch the Simpsons when oval races are on... so how about you watch your oval races...we'll watch our road races.. and we'll all be happy any given Sunday .