BAR, Jordan and Honda

[neilap]

We know now that BAR will be exclusive with Honda next year. I wonder if BAR will suddenly seem faster than the Jordan for the rest of the year. After all BAR and Honda are now deep into the development of the 2003 car. Will Honda give all the latest updates of the motor to Jordan? Or will they go out of their way to collect more points that Jordan. After all there are fringe benefits associated with having more points. It will also make the decision seems a bit wiser!

[Tristan]

I think BAR will improve next year (unfortuantely). Jordan will be shut out for the rest of this season.

[billyblister]

To be honest I think BAR can't get much worse, they will improve next year but massively IMO.

[billyblister]

Sorry that should be NOT massively

[EERO]

I think that BAR has a chance to improve massively for next year. But I agree with neilap; its likely that Jordan's form will fade towrd the end of the season, and maybe BAR will benefit. However, I suspect that Jordan will have incentive to to show Honda that they were wrong.

[neilap]

It will be good to see next year. The season is not even over and I am already impatiently awaiting Australia. I think Honda will have to cease any development that they might have in store for Jordan. I dont think they want to drop any hints to them of what they intend to do for next year.

[Spudgun]

How long will BAR be called BAR? I'll give it until 2004. Then we'll see a Honda (prepared by Prodrive) lining up on the grid.

[Rennen]

Jordan has one great advantage over BAR...Fisichella!

[mac]

He is special, isn't he?

[kdr]

pound for pound he's better than that jpm fellow.

[BootsOntheSide]

I would've thought maybe Jordan will get the more experimental stuff from Honda first, when they're less sure of its reliability or drivability (of course FIsichella in an undrivable car is as good as Villeneueve in a drivable one (BARs ahve never been any better than 'drivable')), basically usign Jordan as guinea pigs.

[Total-F1]

David Richards has already stated that the team will be re-badged next year - an expensive image change is on the cards, BAT have agreed to it, and I'd assume it means we'll see a works Honda team on the grid.

I wouldn't like to insinuate anything, but if Jordan didn't have very good engines, and therefore not much hope for next season, they might like to find another engine supplier. If Honda wanted to have a works team, they would have to get rid of Jordan, who don't want to sell out...hmm?

[neilap]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Total-F1
[B]David Richards has already stated that the team will be re-badged next year - an expensive image change is on the cards, BAT have agreed to it, and I'd assume it means we'll see a works Honda team on the grid.

If this is true it is great news for Honda fanatics! Ok its great news for me (there I said it). Now Honda will not be able to blame a bad chassis nor BAR a weak motor. It will be a complete team effort.
EJ does not want to lose any decision making power in HIS team. We have to respect his courage. He also has done really well to secure a deal like this, considering many thought he was in financial distress.

[ParkLife]

I think BAR will now move foreward, probably a step improvement next year. However, I also think Jordan will improve. So will Renault, and I think it will all be at the expense of Sauber.

[Mania]

I doubt whether Honda and BAR will be anywhere near the top next season - they will improve from this season - because they cant get any worse - but it wont be massive. Im confident that the Ford/Cosworth engines are better than the Hondas and if Jaguar and Jordan can come up with halfway decent chassis - then BAR will finish behind those 2 teams as well.

My advice to Jacques would be to get the hell away frrom BAR and Honda cos neither of them are going anywhere fast.

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by ParkLife
I think BAR will now move foreward, probably a step improvement next year.

Not if they still have that $hitty excuse for a chassis and aero package

[ParkLife]

Geoff Willis. Next year's chassis will be better.

[HKUSP40C]

Originally posted by Mania
I doubt whether Honda and BAR will be anywhere near the top next season - they will improve from this season - because they cant get any worse - but it wont be massive. Im confident that the Ford/Cosworth engines are better than the Hondas and if Jaguar and Jordan can come up with halfway decent chassis - then BAR will finish behind those 2 teams as well.

My advice to Jacques would be to get the hell away frrom BAR and Honda cos neither of them are going anywhere fast.

How do you figure Honda isn't going anywhere? They have the most improved engine on the grid, and cars with Honda power the last two or three races have been showing speed down the straights. In Germany, 4 of the 5 race top speeds belonged to the four Honda powered cars (f1.tagheuer.com) We'll see where they stand at Monza.

[neilap]

True! I can't wait for next year. People wrote off Benneton last year and they made a huge improvement in the last few races and now have a solid 4th place. They actually looked at some times to be faster than Mclaren.

Honda has not only been developing the motor but they have also been working on chassis development and aero in their Athena project. I can't see any reason for the car (not just the motor) not being a significant step over this year. If it is not much improved then it is a matter of someone dropping the ball not lack of ability. No one here knows for a fact who will be where on the grid. Ferrari is a given because they could win next year with this years car. However to make the ASSumption that Ford will be ahead of Honda or that he Jordan will have a better chassis is delusional.

[kmchow]

So the predictions for '03 are:

1) It will Honda-Honda instead of BAR Honda?
2) They will improve significantly?

Hmmm, we should revisit this thread, same time next year...

[Total-F1]

Originally posted by neilap

If this is true it is great news for Honda fanatics

Of course it's true. I said it.

[Valve Bounce]

This is something that both Neilap and I have said before: since the advent of the on board computer managing all running parts, the car must be developed as one unit and not two entities.

Valve

[neilap]

Well maybe I do have reason to be more encouraged. BAR looks really bad. I have tried to defend them but it is getting increasingly difficult. They have improved their lap times relative to last year but it is still not enough of an improvement. Maybe now Honda will have more power maybe even their own team. VB, maybe F1 does have an interesting future after all. Now we need more tire suppliers.
Total-F1 I was not saying you dont know your stuff, I just dont get too excited because there is always room for a letdown.

[Total-F1]

Ah - but I'm the insider, the semi-professional, the turnip with his foot in the door.

I spend half my life finding out this stuff. Why? Haven't a clue. I only end up sticking it on here.

[bosch!]

Total F1 wrote:

I wouldn't like to insinuate anything, but if Jordan didn't have very good engines, and therefore not much hope for next season, they might like to find another engine supplier.

sorry mate not sure if its the double negitive or what, but what are you insinuating? i got the bit about a Honda works team, but to think that a shiny logo makes things better a la jaguar is kinda delusional isnt it?