|
| Site Partners: | SpotterGuides | Veloce Books |
| Related Sites: | Your Link Here |
|
|
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 09:53 (Ref:374331)
|
#1 | ||
|
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 497
 |
Honda and Toyota to IRL why?
OK. I was just thinking about this earlier and can't figure it out completely.
Last year Heitzler announced a new engine package, which got rid of turbo's in favor of normally aspirated engines. Honda and Toyota backed out because they didn't want to build a normally aspirated engine. Am I wrong so far? So, Honda and Toyota switch to IRL who runs normally aspirated engines. I don't get it. I know some of it has to do with Heitzler's mess over the pop off valve. But what else? Honda and Toyota are still making the switch just to spite CART? Help me out here. Cam |
||
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 10:35 (Ref:374369)
|
#2 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,294
|
Simple - the lure of the Indianapolis 500. That is the ONLY reason why they have left.
|
||
|
|
__________________
Sunderland Til I Die! |
|
6 Sep 2002, 11:28 (Ref:374418)
|
#3 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
|
But really, all of that tooing and froing didn't help anyone out... what were the manufacturers to do when the series bigwigs didn't know what they were doing?
|
||
|
|
__________________
Love you long time |
|
6 Sep 2002, 14:56 (Ref:374602)
|
#4 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,035
|
Well at least now CART has got someone in charge who knows whats going on and is continuously working to improve the appeal of the sport to fans. Top man!
Last edited by paulzinho; 6 Sep 2002 at 14:56. |
||
|
|
__________________
le bad boy |
|
6 Sep 2002, 15:14 (Ref:374611)
|
#5 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
|
Honda and Toyota just wanted to make extra-sure that I never purchase one of their cars.
|
||
|
|
__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
|
6 Sep 2002, 15:25 (Ref:374614)
|
#6 | ||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 49
|
|||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 15:27 (Ref:374616)
|
#7 | |||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 49
|
Quote:
Most NASCAR races get the same ratings the Indy 500 does. Its more about Toyota getting into Nascar and Honda fighting Toyota. Than anything else. |
|||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 16:04 (Ref:374644)
|
#8 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,301
|
Ditto Macdaddy
|
||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 17:14 (Ref:374708)
|
#9 | ||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10
|
camcartfan... not sure on honda's perspective, but when the N/A formula was announced, Toyota said that they would build an engine like this for CART if the basic regulations were the same as the IRL formula, which they claimed would be the case. That was the case until the announcement of the lower tech turbo engine for 2003 cart, surfaced. Left with a N/A engine in development, Toyota had to pull out of CART next year....
|
||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 18:05 (Ref:374758)
|
#10 | |||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 49
|
Quote:
Toyota was never going to be in CART next year. Never. In any way. With no doubt. Toyota threw that carrot out at CART... play by our rules, we may show up. CARt went to the spec Turbo not only because it was going to be 60% cheaper than the 3.5 NA, but because Toyota was about to announce that they would not provide engines for CART. They were taking thteir ball and going home. Leading up to that point, Toyota had made it clear that the most to be expected for CART was that 'TRD' would sell engines to the CART teams, for a cost of $2.7M, in essence, subsidizing their IRL efforts off the backs of the CART teams. Read the article referenced in my above post. |
|||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 19:11 (Ref:374804)
|
#11 | ||
|
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 497
|
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pferrf1
[B] Shaggy - That is completely and utterly WRONG. Toyota was never going to be in CART next year. Never. In any way. With no doubt. A normally aspirated engine was never in development. The decision to leave CART was made way before the new Cosworth turbo package was announced. |
||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 19:32 (Ref:374815)
|
#12 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 4,553
|
Lets hope Honda and Toyota force the smaller teams into CART.
|
||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 22:59 (Ref:374932)
|
#13 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 731
|
There must have been some B$G $NCENT$VE from TGIRL
|
||
|
|
|
|
6 Sep 2002, 23:14 (Ref:374942)
|
#14 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
|
It's funny how that just before Pook entered the scene, CART was going to be IRLised with a mystery package. Thank god that never happened...
Yeah, TG would be flipping a bit of green Honda/Toyota's way, but then again, so is Pook, with all of these subsidies. Really, neither team in the game are in that great a shape when they have to pay for their competitors to turn up.. |
||
|
|
__________________
Love you long time |
|
7 Sep 2002, 05:44 (Ref:375088)
|
#15 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 6,038
|
I wouldn't be surprised if Honda and Toyota regret their decisions now... They are going into a series which has no other destiny but failure. They are in the spotlight for one day a year and then are completely invisible the rest of the time.
On the other hand, Cart's audience continues to expand around the world. |
||
|
|
__________________
"I used to hate writing, but now I enjoy it. I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!" - Calvin and Hobbes |
|
7 Sep 2002, 08:28 (Ref:375123)
|
#16 | ||
|
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 174
|
Honda
HONDA doesn't tend to make unwise choices.The company makes decisions with the future in mind.HONDA did not leave CART as a way to "spite" the series.HONDA's primary goal is to escalate HONDA.The sum of money allocated to HPD is certainly an indication of that.
I feel that it would be prudent to consider that a great deal of forward looking thought has been dedicated to the future of HONDA racing. |
||
|
|
|
|
7 Sep 2002, 09:57 (Ref:375156)
|
#17 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,702
|
Re: Honda
Quote:
|
||
|
|
|
|
7 Sep 2002, 10:04 (Ref:375161)
|
#18 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
|
In F1, Honda has made a decision for the loooooong future...
|
||
|
|
__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
|
7 Sep 2002, 10:37 (Ref:375190)
|
#19 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
|
BTW pferrf1- thanks for the link! Very interesting... but I take it the writer doesn't like Toyota? I remember a time when the Hondas would blow up everytime they left the garage, but he neglected to harp on that fact
|
||
|
|
__________________
Love you long time |
|
7 Sep 2002, 22:47 (Ref:375459)
|
#20 | ||
|
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 148
|
That was an interesting article pferrf1 linked to. Toyota's use of "industrial spies" against Ford and Honda was particularly interesting. I had naively assumed that the Toyota engineers had figured out what Ford and Honda were doing with the pop off valves and figured that it would be easier to get CART to change the valve than to develop the technology themselves. It makes more sense that they used spies because if they had had the pop off valve idea themselves it would make sense to use it themselves to gain an advantage rather than getting CART to ban it on the possibly faulty assumption that Ford and Honda were already doing it.
It makes me wonder what else Toyota learned from their spies. It could be that Toyota's success this year is due to their engine being a combination of the best ideas from Ford and Honda put into one package. |
||
|
|
__________________
"Well, what would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy to the Scarecrow |
|
11 Sep 2002, 01:13 (Ref:377778)
|
#21 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 625
|
I have owned several Toyota trucks in the past. After what I have learned here, my next truck might just be a Ford.
|
||
|
|
|
|
12 Sep 2002, 20:54 (Ref:379063)
|
#22 | ||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 14
|
Yeah Tailwind, a Ford, never a Toyota. And yes, all this mess is about the pop-off valve. Honda was supporting CART, winning six championships in a row, Toyota appears and they decide the CART's rules. Oh Mr Heitzler, what a wrong decision. What we have now, no Toyota and no Honda. But it´s true, soon as they get many Indy 500 wins, they will think: "this series sucks" and will come back to real racing. And by then CART will be so established they will have to pray for put their engines in CART.
|
||
|
|
__________________
The devil is a man with a plan, but the evil the real evil, it's a collaboration of men. (Fox Mulder The XFiles 9x20) |
|
13 Sep 2002, 19:55 (Ref:379824)
|
#23 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,919
|
Hmmm, so what did everyone think of the article overall? Overall, it seems like a well reasoned article, but I have to agree they are overly anti-Toyota. OTOH, if Toyot indeed do all those things, how can anyone not show disgust with Toyota?
Crashtest wrote: >I remember a time when the Hondas would blow up everytime they left the garage, but >he neglected to harp on that fact > True, the Hondas may have been unreliable, but were the Hondas as bad as the Toyotas during this period? Last edited by kmchow; 13 Sep 2002 at 19:58. |
||
|
|
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever... |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Honda & Toyota | mabs_nsx | ChampCar World Series | 20 | 26 May 2005 23:36 |
| Honda or Toyota? | Wrex | Formula One | 96 | 30 Dec 2003 03:37 |
| Honda or Toyota | mabs_nsx | Formula One | 3 | 26 Dec 2003 11:56 |
| Honda Vs Toyota | Mark F1 | Formula One | 25 | 4 Apr 2002 08:52 |
Linear Mode
