Carnegie blows championship race wide open!

[Peter S]

Carnegie blows title race wide open!

Superfinal Results

1. Dermot Carnegie - Ford Focus
2. Will Gollop - Ford Focus
3. Christopher Evans - Nissan Micra
4. Des Wheatley - Metro Gti
5. Mike Howlin - Ford Fiesta
6. Terry Briggs - Metro 6R4
7. Alan Tapscott - Vauxhall Nova
8. Chris Bellamy - Peugeot 206

There was a big accident at the start of the superfinal. Gollop lead the pack into the first corner, followed by McCluskey. McCluskey made contact with Carnegie sending Dermot into a wild slide, but McCluskey hit the tyres and then made contact with Steve Mundy causing massive damage to the Peugeot 306.

Pat Doran didn’t qualify for the superfinal as his RS200 retired from fifth place in the Supercar A final in the final corner. The A final for the supercars was won by Will Gollop ahead of Carnegie and McCluskey.

More online at www.rallycross.nl (news section - tonight and tommorow)

[bigted]

Well in the end there ws plenty of racing, and incidents and plenty of discusion points.

Well done to all involved

[BertMk2]

Looks like total carnage again in the supercars! Looking at the damage to McCluskeys car there has to be some doubt if he'll be at Lydden next month surely? What was the exent of damage to the others (Cross, Mundy)? I'm assuming that Mcanns problem was technical rather than accident? Manning should be OK for Lydden and presumably Doran will be up and running again by then.

The modified entry looked very weak as well (I'm not saying the cars are no good - I'm saying there's not enough of them). Does anyone know why there were so few? The numbers have been low all year but looking at the results it seems that hardly any turned up.

Good to see Jonny Milner making a comeback in rallycross, supercar for next year maybe?

[Peter S]

GOllop deserved the win. He was leading the first start until it was red flag yet again. It happened to Gollop 3 times yesterday....when leading his race was red flagged. I guess that is just his bad luck again

[Peter S]

Anyway that now makes Carnegie and Gollop joint leaders in the championship race. Gollop leads on the tie break as they have equal number of wins, equal number of 2nd places and gollop has a third compared to a fourth for dermot

[BertMk2]

I didn't realise it was as tight as that at the top! WIth only a few rounds to go (3?) it should be a really good scrap.

I just hope that everyone else can get their cars together for Lydden - Doran needs a good result at Lydden to keep his title hopes alive. McCluskey just needs some good luck for a change - it seems to have been one problem after another so far this year.

[Peter S]

Yes you count 9 from 10 rounds. Now it is all equal and lots to play for. It is certain to go down to the wire at Brands. McCluskey was super quick......he was quick enough to beat Gollop and Doran.

Three rounds to go.

www.rallycross.nl has full stuff from blyton (full report added tonight)

Everyone needs good results for the rest of the season...gollop and carnegie have had a bad one each as well so it is to tight to call.

Evans just needs a handful of points to win modified category

[bigted]

Anybody know what the RAGE Buggies were about? because they were one of the problems, we had a big enough meeteing without having some silly buggies. but they were more entertaining than the ranks of the junior minicross cross.

Before Mcluskeys accident he was going so well too.

And dont talk to me about the imprezza, it was the most unpredictable car, as a marshall on the back stretch it came at me no end of times through the field and dust.

[Peter S]

lol!

Yes the RAGE Buggies were supposed to fill the gap in between heats......and someone said they were trying to see if they would generate interest for new drivers in rallycross to perhaps include within a seperate clubmans rallycross championship. I guess a bit like kross cart in norway.

The subaru was going a lot better than it did at Knockhill....Kevin just needs a bit more development time.

There simply was to many cars.....they didnt need the rage buggies and national b for a start. I mean it started at 9.30am and didnt finish until nearly 7pm!

[BertMk2]

Gaps between the heats? Surely with the number of cars entered there were no gaps to be filled? The sheer number of stock hatch entries should garauntee a full day of racing - something like 60 races (heats and finals) at the last Lydden meeting.

Do you know if the national B drivers will be at Lydden next month? If so that could be a bit crowded - Lydden has noise restrictions (6pm cut off I think) so there's already a lot to fit in (if time runs out then it's the supercar A final and superfinal that are most likely to be lost - and let's face it they're the big crowd pullers).

[Peter S]

Exactly. It emphasies more and more the need for a standalone clubmans championship.

the british champs should be for modified and supercars with possible a support race. (minicross)

I dont think national b will be at Lydden. They will probably only be at Blyton again in September.

[bigted]

Well they will never cut the Supercars out, it is in the Championship Regulations, hence the delay in the reruns of the supercar final after the redflag.

And the rumiour was that at all two day meetings they are going to try and run the first set of heats on the saturday. I know the practice was busy but not all drivers could do it and if it was heats i think theyre would be an outcry.

[Peter S]

Unfourtunately no matter what rules you apply you can never ever satisfy everyone

[Upside Down Bug]

I would just publicly thanks all the marshals for their efforts over the weekend. I know I had you out on post for a very long time. From what I saw there was some fantastic racing during the day, and some big big incidents. Amy Bink's roll was scary, and John McClusky's accident, o boy! As I always say, thanks everyone, I love you all and owe you all sloppy kisses. Specially you big ted!!!

The buggies were a late addition to the programme. I think they were impressive; their times were not far from the supercars!!!

Nat B is not at Lydden, but it will be a fuller entry in the supercars and modified.

I won't comment on some of the other points in the thread because of my position at the meeting. However, all points are heard.

[winnie]

I'm not surprised that some of the finals had to be cancelled due to running out of time. Spectators want to watch quality not quantity. There should only be modified, supercars and a few stock hatch cars and have the meeting just on sunday. To have scrutinering and practice on saturday requires a lot of the drivers to travel Friday evening - not ideal and it makes it a long weekend.

The problem with the modified class is cost. To compete with the Micra you have to be looking at spending £30K on a new car. For not as lot more you can do supercars. There are a lot of rear wheel drive cars sitting in garages. They are not competitive any more due to the light weight front wheel drive cars. It is easy to build them around 600kg with the space frame rear ends etc. The easy way to address this would be to introduce a minimum weight limit of say 800kg. Tyre warmers should also be banned. Grids with a mix of fwd, rwd and the odd mid engine car are what i would like to see.

[bigted]

Well the buggies might have looked fun on the twisty bits, but they were a litlle dull where i was (marooned in the dust on post 6).

Amys roll was spectacular, good to hear she is ok. Lots of respect to the rescue units and experienced marshalls.

I hope youve relaxed a little now Upsidedown bug, you sounded a little stressed ar certain points of the day. (You can keep that kiss for the chief marshall if you want!!)

[Peter S]

The Micra was supposed to have cost 85k total to build. Now that is possibly why the class is in decline. You can buy a top range european spec supercar (division 1) for 90,000 Euros which is a lot less than the modifieds. This is again why the European regs should be brought in fully as the cost are kept in check and also the drivers can race there cars outside the UK and they can also buy them from europe giving them a cheaper way into the sport. Not all people want to build a modified car as when they have finished there is a very small market in which to sell them.

One way of getting the mods back is to introduce a capacity split for over 1600cc and under 1600cc. There are a lot of under 1600cc machines tucked away in the garages due to there lack of competitiveness.

As for tyre warmers then that would mean hardly anything to the budget of competiting at all. Perhaps the best way might be a control tyre like in France?

[BertMk2]

85k for a modified That's outrageous! I'm not surprised the others are having trouble competing with that. As you say if that's the price of a modified it's just as well to spend the money on a supercar (having said that the Micra is pretty much pushing some of the supercars around the track).

I thought there was a class structure within the modifieds? Isn't it something like 1400 and under (usually minis and metros), 1400 - 1600 (Novas, corsas), 1600 -2000 (novas ,corsas), and over 2000 (Fiestas, Porsches)?

Even if the cars aren't up to the speed of the front runners it would still be worth taking them out on track surely? Just the increase in numbers would make life harder for the top drivers - the heats have random grids so the front running drivers would end up having to make their way through traffic more often and that would slow down their overall times and possibly produce a more mixed up grid for the finals. (very simplistic view of things I know)

[Peter S]

Yes there is a class structure similar but not for points as the category is just called modified so it is all for one and one for all. The trouble is some of the modified drivers are arent coming out to play, like Richard Hill, Richard Novell etc all want to win and simply it would be virtually impossible for them to be competitve at the moment. That is there is only 15 cars are so. If it was to go back to the early ninetees where the category had a clear split (under 1600cc) and over then it would bring a lot more drivers out as they would only be racing against cars of similar speciifcation.

Maybe the BRDA has a lot of work to do over the coming months to ensure the class remains healthy. If not then it might only get leaner in 2004. There are rumoured to be around 20 supercars for next year so it is important that the mods have a lot of numbers. Again division 1a should be introduced at least, as that would prove very popular, something that a few cars could comply with already in GB....maybe Dave Wards new Corsa will fall into this grouping

[Stevie A]

I think a return to the old BRC class structure could bring back out some of the modified machines.
Old Formula A - Supercars
Old Formula B - Modified >1600cc
Old Formula C - Modified <1600cc
Nova Challenge - Minicross

Stock Hatch and Juniors should be separate with the Clubmans with the view that Stock Hatch is for beginners looking at some point to move into modified and the same with juniors into minicross.

I know this wouldn't solve the problem of people spending stupid money in modified but it would at least encourage more of the others out.

It would be unwise just to introduce euro regs across the board because who would the current crop of modified drivers sell their cars to to fund some new euro spec macinery if there's no place to race the current machines.

Of all nations, France have a good structure with Div 1 and 2 the same as Euro regs and Div 3 and 4 for 'old' supercar (Xantia,ZX,205 T16 etc) and 'old' modified (306 maxi etc). Plus the saxo cup as a one make series.

Not sure if we have the depth of machinery in this country yet but it may be a good direction to head in.......allow people to run old machinery but keep them separate.

[Peter S]

Yes i completely agree with what you are saying Stephen

The only difference i would have would be:

Supercars
Division 1a
Modified over 1600cc
Modified under 1600cc
Minicross

Then have stock hatch, junior minicross and modified clubmans in the BTRDA stand alone series.

A lot of the spectators get frustrated as the National B and Stockhatch arent very fun to watch so people get bored watching all these cars. The atmosphere has bags of excitement when the modified and supercars are on track. A meeting as Stephen outlined with prodomanenently these cars would attract even more fans to a British Rallycross championship event.

The one good thing about stock hatch is a lot of drivers are actually planning a move up into modified. Harold and Cake to name a few.

[winnie]

£85k for the Micra! I bet Des Wheatley hasn't spent 20% of that on his car and he's not that far behind.

How do the regs for div 1a differ from the present modified regs?

[Peter S]

the division 1a regs are similar to Super 1600cc rules. So you have a maximum engine capacity of 1600cc and run to the higher Fia weight limit. The car must homolgated for use in rallycross and a minimum number of cars have to be built. Just like in FIA division 1 but div 1a is 2 wheel drive only and a maximum of 1600cc. This has been very popular across europe with all countrys seeing a range of new cars coming in. The European entry is getting bigger all the time and by the end of the year will be very strong. This class will go down very well in the UK as it is there type of cars. It would make more sense spending money on something where the cars could be raced outside uk and cars can also be bought from abroad.

[winnie]

Do the Div 1a cars and all mods have to be homologated like the old group A, or is it just body type. Can you covert front wheel drive cars to rear wheel drive, can you change engine type and are engine mods free. Can you use composite panels and alter suspension pickups etc, or is it really just like a modified stock hatch.

I think for the modified competitors to become interested the rules would have to be quite 'free'.

[Peter S]

Here is the FIA deffintion

Division 1A : Touring cars

Homologated in Group A with front-wheel drive and a normally
aspirated engine, conforming to Appendix J Group A
(Articles 251 to 255), the modifications listed in Articles 2 and 3
below are permitted.

The cylinder capacity is limited to 1600 cm for Division 1A.
The engine is free but the engine block must be from a
homologated an engine homologated or previously
homologated with the FIA, of the same original trademark as
the car's original bodywork and must have the same number of
cylinders as the engine originally homologated for that car.