Montoya and Berger slam Frentzen - Intentional Blocking?

[BootsOntheSide]

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/030918/323/e8tde.html

Both Montoya and Berge rhve not only criticised Frentzen's efforts when Montoya tried to lap him in Monza, but ahve also implied that it was encouraged by the Sauber team and their Ferrari engine suppliers.

True? It does sometiems seem like a lot of people have ulterior motives to support Ferrari. i guess it's another good resason for BMW to set up a customer engine supply.

Frentzen didn't seem to be aware of Montoya's position, which is excusable in one corner, but not for such a large part of the lap. I'm not surprised at this anger, but perhaps, suspicious as it seems, it was jsut an honest mistake, similar to Belgium 1998.

Any thoughts?

[Adam43]

SLAM!

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Both Montoya and Berge rhve not only criticised Frentzen's efforts when Montoya tried to lap him in Monza, but ahve also implied that it was encouraged by the Sauber team and their Ferrari engine suppliers.

Hmmmm. Who implied that? Montoya or the journalist?
Since the rpess conference I think the media have made more of this that Montoya did.

I particularly like the report on F1-live.com http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...18185212.shtml

Montoya believes he was then slowed down in three corners. "If he did it on purpose, it is cheating," said Gerhard Berger, the director of Williams engine suppliers BMW.

Take the start of this paragraph. "Montoya beleives" followed by quote from, er Berger. In fact there is nothing from Montoya in the whole paragraph - the evidence for this is quotes from two others!

The quote from Montoya earlier inteh article is

"He slowed me down at the decisive moment of overtaking,"

Which is true.

The other stuff from Berger and Theissen (who apparently was equally scathing!) do go further, but not really that much.

Worth a read, but ultimately a nothing story. IMHO. It is true that it cost Montoya a whole second or two when he could only pull Michael in by a few tenths, but htat is it. Montoya is a little annoyed, whether it was on purpose or not. Fair enough. However Montoya himself says in Autsport this week (and elsewhere):

Quiet honestly, Idon't think I could have passed Michael anyway

Just checked and the f1-live article and Boots' yahoo article are the same.

[djb]

Adam, it is refreshing to see a critical view of journalism, it is already healthy to look at what is written (especially on the web) with a grain of salt and to think about what is exactly being quoted, what is hyberbole and what is just plain hogwash. Confirmation of sources and fleeting web stories especially always deserve a bit of leeway for seeing what other sources can back up stories and then one can begin to get a better idea of just what is a journalists twist on things.

[Alan Jones]

How to make a mountain out of a molehill. Monty didn't have the pace or the car to challenge Michael last week.

[Mark Webber]

spot on Alan it was MS race

[Jordi]

It's true. The race was decided when JPM couldn't pass MS at the second chicane, lap 1.

[Snrub]

I really doubt HHF would stoop to that. He's not MS!

[Mark Webber]

even if jpm did pass Ms on the 1st lap MS still would have one it

[Ralf]

Why would Double H help Michael anyway?
I didn't think they got along.

[Attila]

Since Corina TGF's wife left HH for TGF, they are not the best friend like they used to be. Of course the story in the press is a little bit different, but a friend of mine knew them both at the time and he sais that Corina and HH broke up because of Schumi :-))). So I highly doubt that HH would help TGF even if his seat depended on it :-)).

[Armco Bender]

JPM is obviously starting to crack under the pressure.Boo Hoo a car didnt get out of his way,time to harden up a bit.

[Damon]

Yeah right, obviously he can't handle the pressure because his joking comments got taken out of context by the media. He may as well give up now .

[Mr V]

JPM wouldn't have caught and passed Michael, thats a given, however, JPM was closer to Michael before he lapped Frentzen and the Jordan, and once he finally got by the gap was bigger, thats also a given.

Just out of intereset, when Michael was behind Frentzen, i wonder if Frentzen had people screaming in his ear that a Ferrari was about to lap him, and wether those voices were as loud when JPM was trying to lap him.

[climb]

Sorry, but imo JPM wass simply unlucky, cos he found HHF to lap after the 1st chicane; for at least 20 secs was almost impossible to pass a driver who was after all, having a very good race. MS had the luck to pass him just a few meters before.
The same happened to Barrichello, and Kimi had the chance to get very colse to him.
However, after this difficult lapping, JPM continued to be increasingly slower than MS, without any justification of this nature, so any complaint about HHF by Monty or Berger is childish.

[Tristan]

"JPM wouldn't have caught and passed Michael, thats a given"

But IS it?? I honestly thought he had a real chance. JPM had the faster car and, despite it running more wing, the BMW would've given him enough power to at least have a stab at passing.

IN FACT, despite the fact that the Ferrari had the higher top speed all weekend, the Williams would have been exiting the corners quicker because of its wing settings (I'm thinking in particular of Parabolica and possibly Ascari) and, once in the tow of TGF the Williams would have had more to gain from draft than would the Ferrari were it behind the Williams.

(you with me so far?? )

"Just out of intereset, when Michael was behind Frentzen, i wonder if Frentzen had people screaming in his ear that a Ferrari was about to lap him, and wether those voices were as loud when JPM was trying to lap him."

Now we're talking. JPM was undoubtedly bought by Frentzen, intentionally or otherwise. It DID cost him a fair old stab at the race and possibly even the title.

BUT.

DESPITE ALL THIS.

WHY THE HELL DID JPM SLOW DOWN SO???!!! IMO he could have still at least closed the gap back up to TGF by the end of the race and, whilst TGF is the ultimate under pressure, who knows what could have happened then. I thought JPM was a fighter, someone with a never-say-die attitude?? Unfortunately he did about 10 laps from the end.

[Damon]

Quoted from Montoya's account in this weeks Autosport:

"After that (the two lapping problems), I knew that if I pushed really hard and took some risks, I could take another 3 or 4 tenths out of Michael, and be about 4 seconds behind him at the finish. That's very useful! So I knew I had to finish and just fight another day. You can't do anything else."

[z2252314]

JPM lost one second behind HHF.... If he decided to give up because one driver held him up for a few corners, then he doesnt deserve the win.

[Tristan]

OK, I wouldn't go *THAT* far, but you're catching my drift. Most disappointed.

[Damon]

In the first stint Rubens got to within a second of JPM and then no closer, did he give up? No, he hit the turbulent air behind the Williams and so couldn't get any closer. In the second stint JPM got to within a second of Schu but then no closer, did he give up? No, he hit the turbulent air behind the Ferrari and couldn't get any closer. If he couldn't manage it earlier in the race why would it be any different later? He did what you yourself have critised him for not doing many, many times in the past z, he drove a smart race to the best possible position he could manage on the day. Or are you suggesting that Schu was a beaten man and only won because Montoya "gave up"?

[Tristan]

"Or are you suggesting that Schu was a beaten man and only won because Montoya "gave up"?"

No, not at all. I don't think JPM could have passed TGF as it happens. But it would've been nice to have seen him try. And all that stuff about "turbulent air"?? I don't beleive it for a second. Such is the characteristics of Monza that turbulence doesn't matter as much as, say, the Hungaroring.

[Damon]

Well then explain why there was NO overtaking at all at Monza, despite the fact that on numerous occasions, cars behind were running faster than cars in front until they got to within a second of them?

[Tristan]

Um.... coincidence??!!

Oh it's not about having a "logical argument", it's about JPM backing off more than was really necessary. And whilst I appreciate this championship has been all about consistancy (vizzavi Kimi), it's also about winning things (vizzavi TGF) and JPM was CATCHING him. He had a CHANCE. A frikkin BIG chance, bearing in mind his aero superiority. Was most underwhelmed. As opposed to "whelmed".

(Hmmmm... there's one for someone to pick up on for the Gravel Trap, seeing as I'm still banned: "Words that have negatives yet no positives - "Underwhelmed", "Understated" etc." It's YOURS. TAKE IT.)

[massifheed]

LOL! You're not bitter about the Gravel Trap thing then Tristan?

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Mark Webber
even if jpm did pass Ms on the 1st lap MS still would have one it

IF, IF. If JPM pass MS, he could/would win.

[DriverT]

JPM did have a chance, but he should not have backed off whether or not HHF did deliberately block him. He lost the race himself, and given his wing setting I don't think he would have been able to get close enough to Schumacher to pass him. But it would have been interesting.

Originally posted by Damon
Well then explain why there was NO overtaking at all at Monza, despite the fact that on numerous occasions, cars behind were running faster than cars in front until they got to within a second of them?

At the front at Monza over the past few years it has always been close with almost none or indeed no overtaking.