TORONTO RACE - contains spoiler

[Kicking-back]

Bourdais wins again

Vasser has a good race to second

Tracy drives a very scrappy race - hitting people all over the place

Far too many incidents from a lot of drivers leads to far too many yellows


Bourdais now leads the championship after Junqueira goes out on lap one

I think Sebastien must be the favourite for the title at this stage

[Omega99]

I thought it was a tremendously entertaining race, with tons of passing. You never knew what was going to happen next. There were a few too many yellows, I agree, but that did keep the field tight and made for a race with action from beginning to end. I don't know what they fed the drivers out there today but they all came out gunning!

As for the penalty situations, I'm not sure if I like the idea of assessing a penalty to a driver in EVERY incident like they seemed to be doing today. While they were definitely in reason to say one driver was at fault over another, it's just the way things go sometimes. Even Carl Russo seemed to see it as a bit excessive. They should only do something like that for intentional incidents or where one driver clearly does something wreckless. I thought Tagliani's first penalty was unfounded considering the incident that happened right in front of him, with Tracy taking out Wilson. Servia was up beside him and they just made contact while both were probably thinking about how they were going to get around Tracy and Wilson. More of a racing incident. He deserved his second penalty, but I don't know how they could give him the white flag and the black flag at the same time, expecting him to be able to serve the penalty. Tracy's penalties were borderline at best, but he was in the wrong and should have backed off. (2 minutes for Roughing, I suppose ) I don't think punishing drivers for being aggressive and trying to make passes is the right direction for the officials to be taken. However, given the number of incidents in the race that could be attributed to over-aggression I do understand why they feel the need to prevent it from getting out of hand. But there has to be some restraint.

[f1manoz]

That was completely nuts but also highly entertaining, make up for the boredom felt during the F1 race at Silverstone. No matter where the camera pointed there was something going on during the race.

Sebs did all that was required - led out front, kept his nose clean and won fairly comfortably. He certainly did it easy once PT had his... er... problems...

PT was a bit nuts, that's for sure. Hitting anyone who got in his way nearly. His hitting Wilson was his fault (hit the rear tyre of the other guy - YOUR FAULT PAL!), hitting Jourdain was arrogant on his part - be aware of your surroundings PT. On the whole, he was making his mid-week comments about Tags look sillier.

Vasser certainly drove a smart race to finish second, while it was good to see Haberfeld in the Reynard also score some good points, likewise Mazzacane, who proved he may not be the quickest guy out there, but will more often than not bring the car home (he proved that at Minardi in 2000.)

[Raven]

What happened to Bruno then?

Crashed out on lap 1? His fault or contact?

[Ac.]

Originally posted by Raven
What happened to Bruno then?

Crashed out on lap 1? His fault or contact?

From my vantage point in the stands it appeared that RHR ran into the back of Junkie, which caused him to hit Dominguez. It's too bad that they were both out early as two more top cars would have made the action even better.

No doubt about it, push to pass was perfect for the streets of Toronto. A bit chippy, but very entertaining!

[Kicking-back]

The RHR incident was separate.

The Junqueira/Dominguez incident was 50/50.

Mario put his car somewhere marginal, Bruno should've given him more room.

Each blamed the other.

[Liz]

Heard as Dominguez and Junqueira were walking back to their respective garages:

Junqueira: "Stupid Mexican!"

Dominguez: "Stupid Brazilian!"

I had fun covering that race -- Jimmy Vasser was so mellow at the end and just really enjoyed being on the podium again. Carpentier was charming and Bourdais was his usual modest, low-key self and reminded me of Alain Prost which is a good thing.

Vasser thought the "push to pass" button was the reason for a lot of optimistic passes that might not have come off as planned, but he and the other two thought it ought to be kept as it made everything more exciting.

And I won the pool on where Gidley would crash.

[Snrub]

A very good race, lots of good action and passing. In situations like this I always wonder, where are all those ignorant nay-sayers who say that you can't have a good race on a street course? We've had lots of good races at TO and this is another one.

Worth mention:
* I didn't realize Memo was back which was a really pleasent surprise. He had a mixed day. At some points he was really impressive, but he made a couple of mistakes that shouldn't have been made. He had been out of the car for so long and had little practice so I don't think it's fair to be too hard on him.
* Servia was very impressive! He kept getting pushed back, but put in a performance that should have been atleast another 4th like Cleveland.
* Tag has some impressive moments. Tag is quickly becoming a favorite of mine because he's never afraid to make a pass. He's always several spots up of where a guy like Junky would end up.
* Junky finally with a DNF (but why the heck do you get points from a 17th place DNF?!?). Makes the championship battle more interesting.
* Wilson is doing for his team what Servia is doing for his. It's great to see the small "weak" cars beating up on the competition. While he clearly wasn't as quick as Forsythe or NH, he was closer than I would have expected.
* PT - several issue to discuss.
1. Before the first stop. The race was quiet boring at the front. Bourdais and PT were cruising around saving their tires. PT and Forsythe were hoping to win in the most boring way, ala MS & Ferrari by beating them in the pits. Rather than push Bourdais, they didn't want risk Bourdais putting the pedal down and leaving PT in the dust. The grippier, but shorter life tires actually had the exact opposite than hoped for result!
2. When he took out Wilson, a bit his fault, but all in all a racing incident. He wasn't using the "horn" on Wilson and due to the way the two of them cornered it's difficult to avoid. With the championship on the line, PT had to be more carefull than this. That's what was stupid about it.
3. Jourdain was taken out because PT messed up by going over the curbs, it was an accident, but not the type PT is known for.

[Snrub]

LOL great info in your post Liz!

[lnin0]

I think the best part of the broadcast was seeing Tracy make all his comments about Tag's lack of skill at the begining of the show and then watching Tracy demolish anyone that gets in the way of his rampage. Paul Tracy is the one acting like a spoiled first year driver out there and in this caliber of racing there is no room for a guy with road rage when things go bad for him.


#1 - Bruno knows Mario is a bold driver, he said so himself. Why does he then assume Mario gave him the corner when others behind are going two wide? Mario had noplace to go, Bruno's fault.

#2 - Tracy decided to take Wilson on the outside...until Wilson goes into the turn too hot. Tracy then goes from side by side on the left, drops across Wilson's rear wing and shoves a nose up into his wheel all in about .100th of a second. Yeah, Wilson didn't leave him much room but if Tracy isn't smart enough to not force an issue with an erratic rookie he deserves everything he got. Where is Tracy's patience to just wait for the next chance instead of trying to force something after his initial choice was a wrong one?

#3 Tracy coming out of the pits and doesn't see a car beside him even though it is clearly in view from the in car cam? Bull.

Other than that is was an entertaining race. It appears if Bourdais keeps capturing front row spots where he can keep his nose clean, he will run away with the championship.

[Snrub]

I don't idolize PT, but he gained my respect for the first time last year. At times (eg. Elkhart 2000) PT put in tremendous performances and I respected that he was capable of periodic unbeatable performances. I think if PT had Cicale as his engineer for 2004 he's be in the championship lead. PT needs his on staff shrink.

While it was not a great move with Jourdain, he was out of the pits when it happened so was not obligated to let Jourdain by. He did try to be somewhat fair but screwed up.

I don't think he did anything that one could say was going to kill someone. If you want to look back in his career and I'd have to agree that this was at times the case.

What do you guys think about PT's corner 2 technique? He repeatedly took a wide line that forced the competition inside so he could get a jump on them before the drag race to the end of the straight. It's been done before, but no one else seemed to do it today. I could see how some might not like this technique, but I thought it was quiet indicative of driving ability!

[JohnSSC]

So I guess to sum up a few of you are kind of upset with PT...

[Flatspot]

The upside to PT right now is that he is stirring up emotion in people watching. It may be for the wrong reasons but nevertheless he is doing it. That is good for the series.

He drove pretty well last year and with a good head but so far this year he is driving like he did in his first few seasons. He needs to step back and look at the way he is driving and he would realize why he's a ways back in the points. Aggressive is one thing but I think Paul's a bit dangerous right now. Pull it together Paul!

I was thrilled to see Memo back in a Champ Car. Obviously rusted but would polish right up with some seat time. I think I heard them say he only had an hour and a half session before he had to qualify. Not long after having been out of the car for over 2 years. Especially when the only open wheeler he's been driving is a shifter cart. Hopefully Rocketsports will keep him on but I relaize chances are quite slim for a non-paying driver.

[Lude]

<---- The New Guy

Great Race had my wife record it for me so I could see it, sucks having to work Sunday afternoons.

The problem with Tracy is he does not have that special someone speaking sweet nothings to him durning the Race to keep him under control. Last year when the team picked up Tracy they had to make a deal with the devil that he was able to bring along two people his now inconceivable engineer that could not figure out a rubiks cube if it was already done for him and his radioman(the only one to calm Tracy when he got ****ed off). This year when the Team went to Three cars they had to make some essential cuts and guess what Tracy's Radioman went byebye. So Tracy has been out of control this whole year ranting and raving that everyone is out to get him. I've actually had the oppurtunity to speak with Tracy before in Hospitality and I'll tell you what it's all about him.

Thats all from the peanut gallery...

[macdaddy]

Before I can comment on the race, I must comment on this thread.

You will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane...

Follow the FAQ link at the top of your page.
I'm about to start rereading this thread and making some changes. I can tell you right now that at least one person is going to receive a warning. You want to set the tone as that of an "adults-only" forum? Then act like adults.

[macdaddy]

Six posts have disappered, from five members. I'm not going to waste my time editting each one individually - getting rid of them works even better. Although I would certainly like to take this opportunity to welcome some new members, I feel that everybody should take some time to familiarize themselves with the rules.

Now, about the race...

I finally remember why I love ChampCar so much!
Fantastic efforts up-and-down pit road. Wilson was looking superb, but seemed to lose his focus when things went astray. Likewise Allmendinger. For awhile there, I thought that maybe, just maybe, Coyne would have a podium! From either driver! Bourdais was once again flawless, Vasser was super-aggressive and super-clean. Congrats to our owner/driver! Great races from Haberfeld and Tagliani (up to a point). About the penalties, I concur with Omega99's post earlier in the thread. It's as if he stole the words right out of my mouth.

What an exciting race! About the only thing that was predictable was Bourdais!

[RapidTron]

Re-read my last two posts, RapidTron.
'Cause I ain't kiddin'.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Liz
Bourdais was his usual modest, low-key self

That's good to hear - I was pretty sure his recent attitude problem was merely an abberation.

[RapidTron]

Originally posted by RapidTron
Re-read my last two posts, RapidTron.
'Cause I ain't kiddin'.

what? so i cant even say that i would take bourdais over prost?


In answer to your query...
Sure you can! Do it like this:
"I would take Bourdais over Prost."
You know as well as I do, that is not what you posted.

[Kicking-back]

RapidTron - it's not a good idea to publicly argue with the judges decision.

[Liz]

It was pretty obvious neither Bruno nor Mario were used to cussing in English. And that was all they said, really -- they didn't actually do a Tony Stewart or anything!

The attendance numbers given out were optimistic, but I do believe that the big reasons this year were the obscene air fares and the long waits at the border. There are some people who think SARS prevented some people from coming, but I think that is nonsense. Herdez Canada brought everybody from their headquarters and showed the (Mexican) flag everywhere. And I never heard anybody making comparisons with last year or any other year. Except the press.

Unlike some of what I have heard from the Brotherhood of the Crying Towel, the series is upbeat and the people in charge are working hard to make everything work and will do anything to facilitate a good impression from fans and from media. One of them even moved a carelessly-parked golf cart that was blocking the only viewpoint the non-photographer press had to take photos of the cars heading for the grid.

Absolutely the ONLY people who were waving the Crying Towel this weekend were members of the press. Whenever Another Series was mentioned -- ONLY by the press -- the temperature dropped to 370 Kelvin and definite statements were made that (1) they will NOT be in Toronto next year and (2) we don't want them here. By members of the public as well as people from every segment of CCWS.

Robin Miller interrupted a press conference about another subject entirely to bluntly remark that "I heard the IRL will be racing here next year." And among other things PG said:

(1) whenever this subject comes up, everyone from the management of CART to the promoters are barraged (he repeated this twice) by e-mail informing all concerned that "this [Champ Cars] is what they want to see." and

(2) If that ever happens, he will personally buy the first 10,000 tickets. To which a member of the press asked, "Will we get NASCAR tickets with that?" and everybody laughed.

Finally, although the grandstands were not exactly overflowing, Champ Cars does not allow members of the press into them even to take photos -- the only series I have ever worked at that does not. This is not management, but obdurate day-hires who clearly know nothing about racing.

[enemy-ace]

Wow, what a barn-burner. And I'm not talking about this thread.
I may be a little biased towards PT, but I can't help but think that his incidents were made a little more damaging due to the concrete canyon that is the street course. His attempted move on Wilson was a classic switch-back maneuvre you see a million times in karting. However due to the closeness of the circuit Wilson was obliged to keep it tight (or hit the wall) after entering the corner shallow. There was room but not enough. The Jourdain incident on any other track would have been nothing more than a bump, but put a wall there and it's game over. Like him or hate him at least the guy is willing to pass. Other than his two incidents he also made some great moves. Going wheel to wheel down the back stretch with Carp was thrilling.
Nice to see Carp get a podium, for a while there he looked like he would be visiting the walls himself. He was well and truly sideways at one point.
Bourdais flawless. He'll be the champ this year. Watch for Bruno to descend into hissyfits as Bourdais ascends into greatness.
What's the deal with Tag? I'm starting to see a pattern with him. He looks really quick and racy but then almost seems to fall away at some point. Maybe he needs to settle down on the car setup and find something a little more balanced. The guy is better than his results show.
Super race from Vasser. When he passed both Servia and Tag on the same lap I was truly impressed. He really made the most of his opportunities. I always considered him to be the type to let the race come to him, not this time though. Great result for Vasser and PKV
Good to see Gidley back too. Not a great result, but then he was really up against it this weekend. However he did make some early passes which is something the 'Leaseplan' team wasn't used to seeing.
All in all the best race of the year. Very entertaining.

[TedN]

Originally posted by Snrub
I think if PT had Cicale as his engineer for 2004 he's be in the championship lead.

I was wondering the same thing after reading Gordon Kirby's Latest Piece

Micklewright admits the loss of the team's engineering chief Tony Cicale has been a blow to the team. "Without Tony onboard it's left something of a void which I don't think anybody but Tony can fill," Micklewright remarks. "We miss him and we hope that at some point in the future we'll be able to get ourselves well enough funded that we'll be able to have him back. But Paul has been very good. He understands the situation. As always, he's a staunch supporter of Champ Car and the team.

Tracy is equally frank about Cicale's departure. "It's been a little bit frustrating but we just didn't have the budget to hire him," Paul says. "I think it's set the team back a little bit but we're starting to rebound. Todd Malloy doesn't have the experience of Tony watching over his shoulder. Maybe that has hurt us a little bit. But at some point you've got to give a young guy a chance to do it on his own. For the most part I think we've been pretty good and we got it right in Cleveland, certainly for qualifying. I think we had a good car for the race as well but we didn't get a chance to show it."

Ted

[flyfishr]

Liz
Re attenance: Remember that this was the first year that the Toronto Street Festive (no charge) was held on the same weekend as the race. They are saying that they had around a millon people at the five different locations. I'm sure that some of those people would have been at the race if it hadn't been in conficlt. I heard their organizers on the radio this morning saying that they are looking it to changing their event dates so as not to run up against the race next year. I also heard that while their tickets sales were down about 20% a week before the race. they ended up only being off last years numbers by 2%. Not a bad come back for a late start to their sales becauce of all the early season doubts there even being a series for them to sell tickets for.

[Liz]

That may well be true -- and some people might have decided they didn't want to come downtown and deal with all the road closures, traffic redirections and confusion. But Grandstand No. 21 was only about 1/3 full and I have not seen that any other year I have attended this race... and except for NH and Forsythe, the paddock was not crowded either. Which was good for those of us who actually wanted to see anything!

Did you hear that the Fun Police were going around during the festival closing down patios and telling businesses that they had to close at 8:00 p.m.? Boy, that's the way to make a reputation as an international city!